Stark hears Orioles in on Garza talks...

[Can_of_corn]

Oh yea, baseball hipsters hate RBIs. I don't think RBIs are an elite way to measure production. HOWEVER (/STEPHEN A. SMITH)

I think being on pace for 100 runs driven in playing on a putrid team is rather remarkable. But I'd be glad to be told how wrong I am.

It isn't being a hipster, its a fact. RBIs and Wins are overly teammate dependent.

Are you telling me that Tony Batista was remarkable in 2003 with 99 RBIs on a bad team and a 663 OPS?

[Pedro Cerrano]

It isn't being a hipster, its a fact. RBIs and Wins are overly teammate dependent.

Are you telling me that Tony Batista was remarkable in 2003 with 99 RBIs on a bad team and a 663 OPS?

Is Soriano's OPS currently 663?

Look, I'm not trying to be combative, I'm really not. It's just I get sick of seeing some poor soul mention the idea of trading for Soriano and the wolves come out and tear him to shreds.

I get that he's got a bad contract and that he's not the hitter he once was. But nobody knows the particulars. Nobody wants to consider:

1) who we'd give up

2) how much of his salary we'd pick up

3) whether or not being moved to a new team in contention (gasp) would motivate him

Instead, people hear the name "Alfonso Soriano" and immediately go into shut-down mode. That's not fair. It's almost as if people are more concerned about how the team would be perceived adding a Soriano versus who we'd actually have to give up.

Once a published report comes out that says "The Cubs won't trade Soriano/Garza without Machado or Bundy" then I'll readily abandon the whole notion. But until then I think the anti-trade rhetoric is quite overblown. And it's gotten to the point where others are actively dismissing the notion, without the foggiest idea why, just so they can say "hey guys, look! I hate Soriano too! Can I join the club!?"

Whatever. Back to beer and The Shins.

[Pedro Cerrano]

It isn't being a hipster, its a fact. RBIs and Wins are overly teammate dependent.

Are you telling me that Tony Batista was remarkable in 2003 with 99 RBIs on a bad team and a 663 OPS?

Yes! And he plays on an awful team and yet somehow is putting up solid RBI. This isn't Russ Ortiz winning 20 games on a good team, this is a guy who should have much fewer runs driven in based on his team.

[The Rick]

Back to beer and The Shins.

Good call. Love The Shins.

[Can_of_corn]

Yes! And he plays on an awful team and yet somehow is putting up solid RBI. This isn't Russ Ortiz winning 20 games on a good team, this is a guy who should have much fewer runs driven in based on his team.

Sorry Pedro but just because a team is bad does not mean that RBI situations will not be present for certain spots in the lineup. I am not going to pore over the Cubs stats and try and prove anything about Soriano's year so you will just have to take my word on it. I was hoping that bringing up Batista's 2003 season would be enough to prove the silliness of the RBI stat, sorry it wasn't.

For the record I would be OK with Soriano if it wasn't for the two extra years. I think this is one of those late career resurgent years that happen right before a total collapse.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Sorry Pedro but just because a team is bad does not mean that RBI situations will not be present for certain spots in the lineup. I am not going to pore over the Cubs stats and try and prove anything about Soriano's year so you will just have to take my word on it. I was hoping that bringing up Batista's 2003 season would be enough to prove the silliness of the RBI stat, sorry it wasn't.

For the record I would be OK with Soriano if it wasn't for the two extra years. I think this is one of those late career resurgent years that happen right before a total collapse.

Yes, but you have no idea what sort of salary the Cubs would pick up. If they pick up X % of his remaining salary, maybe having him for two more years isn't the catastrophe that people are making it out to be. And your thoughts about his performance are just that, thoughts. Maybe he's changed his stance to regain his old form. Maybe he spent the summer working out with the Cubs' version of Brady Anderson. We just don't know.

I just dislike the idea of dismissing an idea without considering all the variables.

And, sorry, I'm not going to take your word on it. I get that RBIs aren't the elite stat that something liek OPS is. If you asked me if I thought Tony Batista had a good year, I'd say "no" and cite his pathetic OPS. If you asked me about Soriano this year, I'd say he's having a good year, cite his OPS and supplement my argument with his HR total and RBI total.

[The Rick]

Soriano's .345 wOBA this year is above average and he's been worth $9.4MM on Fangraphs so far this year. His salary is $19MM this year, and the same in 2013 and 2014, in his age 37 and 38 seasons. Just not anywhere close to worth it, especially given he's good to miss 30-40 games a year due to injury, and his wOBA has bounced around a good bit the past 3-4 years. The more salary the Cubs eat, the more we'll have to give up to get him. Just not worth it IMHO.

[Bohs&O's]

Forget the numbers, soriano can swing the bat. If we can get the cubs to cover a good chunk of his contract and get garza at a discount by taking alfonso why would we not do it? Ppl just hate on soriano because of the contract. Who cares about that, let angelos deal with that, this is not the NFL. It's been 14 years lets go for atleast a .500 record. Trading anyone other than machado or bundy is not mortgaging the future. The fact is soriano and garza would help this team a ton and we should prove we're not the orioles of old. We are a different team with winning on our mind and we won''t back down to anyone no matter what the payroll. We as fans should change our losing mindset the way the team has and expect to win everytime our team takes the field.

[El Gordo]

There's nothing wrong with picking up Soriano for 3-5 M as part of a trade that brings Garza or Dempster, as long as you are not giving up Bundy or Machado. RBI's are not a totally meaningless stat. 100 RBI on and average team is an indication of decent production. It is not definitive, any more than a ..300 BA is, but it is an indication of some value. To dismiss it out of hand is as stupid as to think it is the be all and the end all, as a performance indicator.

[brianod]

Forget the numbers' date=' soriano can swing the bat. If we can get the cubs to cover a good chunk of his contract and get garza at a discount by taking alfonso why would we not do it? Ppl just hate on soriano because of the contract. Who cares about that, let angelos deal with that, this is not the NFL. It's been 14 years lets go for atleast a .500 record. Trading anyone other than machado or bundy is not mortgaging the future. The fact is soriano and garza would help this team a ton and we should prove we're not the orioles of old. We are a different team with winning on our mind and we won''t back down to anyone no matter what the payroll. We as fans should change our losing mindset the way the team has and expect to win everytime our team takes the field.[/quote']

You state that Soriano and Garza would help this team "a ton". Once Nick comes back, how do you support that statement? Garza is under .500 for his career and Soriano is a below average left fielder. I don't want someone else's leftovers. No thanks.

[Leitch]

You state that Soriano and Garza would help this team "a ton". Once Nick comes back, how do you support that statement? Garza is under .500 for his career and Soriano is a below average left fielder. I don't want someone else's leftovers. No thanks.

Not that I'm necessarily in favor of the idea, but Soriano and Garza to date would be significant improvements over what they'd replace -- a sub-.200 LF with 3 dingers since Reimold went down and a lousy #4/#5 starter.

[LookinUp]

I think Schoop will be an above average starter for us in 2-3 years. I do not want to trade him. If we want to trade Matusz/Arrieta/Tillman at this point, I say go for it.

[MarylandAaron]

Schoop, Matusz, Avery for Soriano (and his contract) and Garza. It would be a hail-mary pass, but could really save our season.

I feel like I could get on board with something like this as long as we are still in contention at the deadline. However, I would like to either try and hold on to Avery (and maybe offer someone lesser like Berken in his place), or get the Cubs to pay some of towards Soriano's contract. One of the two.

But overall, I agree that doing something like this could save our season. I know it's risky, but it would be an aggressive move and improve our ballclub dramatically imo.

[El Gordo]

I feel like I could get on board with something like this as long as we are still in contention at the deadline. However, I would like to either try and hold on to Avery (and maybe offer someone lesser like Berken in his place), or get the Cubs to pay some of towards Soriano's contract. One of the two.

But overall, I agree that doing something like this could save our season. I know it's risky, but it would be an aggressive move and improve our ballclub dramatically imo.

I wouldn't consider any deal including Soriano unless the Cubs picked up most of his contract. Schoop and Matusz/Arrieta should be enough to get Garza, with maybe a lesser prospect thrown in and a PTBNL to include Soriano. I'd try to hold on to Avery if I could.

[TradeAngelos]

I think Schoop will be an above average starter for us in 2-3 years. I do not want to trade him. If we want to trade Matusz/Arrieta/Tillman at this point, I say go for it.

I thought the same thing about Matusz a couple years ago.

And Arrieta.

And Tillman.

How has that worked out?