Tillman

[Surhoffan17]

You can say all you want about the M's weak lineup. 97 at the knees with a knee buckling hook gets everyone out. As good as Ive ever seen him.

While I do agree with that statement (Palmer said it, too) I have to say that I thought his fastball was straight as an arrow. I don't mean to nitpick, but what would the Bronx bombers do to that?

Don't get me wrong - he pitched great and is worlds better than we have ever seen him.

[Uli2001]

The real cavalry has arrived.

And none a moment too soon.

[Lucky Jim]

While I do agree with that statement (Palmer said it, too) I have to say that I thought his fastball was straight as an arrow. I don't mean to nitpick, but what would the Bronx bombers do to that?

Don't get me wrong - he pitched great and is worlds better than we have ever seen him.

If he locates, he'll be fine. That said, he was working with an odd (and a bit generous) strike zone.

[brianod]

Jake looked awesome opening day. You need to take into account the opponent and the ballpark. That being said, the velocity and command were very impressive and just what the doctor ordered!

[Malike]

LOL.... thank you for reminding me of my posts....all of which were made when Tillman was off to a horrible start. All Ive done in this thread was give props to those sticking by Tillman,saying I was wrong and praising Tillman for todays starou want to sit up on your high horse and jab have at it. I respect your opinion, you are one of the best posters here but you show once again how intollerably arrogant you are .

It wasn't unreasonable to think Tillman stalled out and wasn't going to be a good ML pitcher. He had a great start tonight, he commanded the ball well and had everything working. Next time, maybe he doesn't, maybe he gives up 6 runs in 2 1/3 innings. I don't think its unreasonable to think that its likely he will stutter. People who are saying if he could pitch like this every time out, he'd be an Ace, well, no s***. The question boils down to do you (not you personally) believe that Tillman is going to be consistently what he has shown tonight, or do you think against a potent lineup, he's going to revert back to his old ways. Who knows? This is why we have to watch the games. And for those saying well, Tillman dominated in AAA, I saw this coming, I'll say bull****. Tillman dominated AAA at much younger ages, and people said the same thing, and he fell flat on his face. The stuff is great now, and he might be legit, but he might not be either.

[ccbird]

No one thought he was this improved just like no one believes Dylan Bundy will come into the league and tear it up a la Tim Lincecum; it's not that no one thought this was possible, it's that no one--having years of being conditioned completely to the contrary as O's fans--dared to say it. I can tell you when I was writing that post today I was about to write and 92.0 seems to be the worst-case scenario for Tillman according to reports but figured, hey, maybe his velocity fluctuates enough that he'll still even out at 92.

Lucky Jim has been pretty high on Tillman throughout, there's no need to argue that because it's all over the board here on the OH. For you to continue denying it seems begrudging at best and petulant at worst.

The first thing I did was give props to those sticking by Tillman. Apparently LJ was so offended because I said I thought even his biggest supporters had to be a bit surprised he was this dominant. What a freaking slight that was.

[Lucky Jim]

It wasn't unreasonable to think Tillman stalled out and wasn't going to be a good ML pitcher. He had a great start tonight, he commanded the ball well and had everything working. Next time, maybe he doesn't, maybe he gives up 6 runs in 2 1/3 innings. I don't think its unreasonable to think that its likely he will stutter. People who are saying if he could pitch like this every time out, he'd be an Ace, well, no s***. The question boils down to do you (not you personally) believe that Tillman is going to be consistently what he has shown tonight, or do you think against a potent lineup, he's going to revert back to his old ways. Who knows? This is why we have to watch the games. And for those saying well, Tillman dominated in AAA, I saw this coming, I'll say bull****. Tillman dominated AAA at much younger ages, and people said the same thing, and he fell flat on his face. The stuff is great now, and he might be legit, but he might not be either.

Did his stuff tonight look like the stuff he brought to MLB starts before? That's why people have been arguing for patience and opportunity. He doesn't need to be as good as he was today to be of value to this rotation. He just needs to be an MLB pitcher. The component parts were all there tonight. And they've been on display (or at least developing) for the better part of two months in the minors.

I completely understood why folks thought he should be traded or a reliever. He was infuriating. But he looked like a different guy in his MiLB starts (even when the results were scattered at first).

[Malike]

Did his stuff tonight look like the stuff he brought to MLB starts before? That's why people have been arguing for patience and opportunity. He doesn't need to be as good as he was today to be of value to this rotation. He just needs to be an MLB pitcher. The component parts were all there tonight. And they've been on display (or at least developing) for the better part of two months in the minors.

I completely understood why folks thought he should be traded or a reliever. He was infuriating. But he looked like a different guy in his MiLB starts (even when the results were scattered at first).

Obviously the stuff was better than it has been since 2009. Again, I am simply tempering my enthusiasm as its one start against a pretty terrible team in a huge stadium. He looked more relaxed, which I think is a big part of him having the success, he just looked loose and like he was having fun. Now, he was incredibly efficient tonight, but hasn't been that way in AAA, despite the good numbers. It will be very interesting to see how he does against teams that can hit. I wish him nothing but success, he clearly has talent, but it takes more than just talent to succeed at the ML level.

[Lucky Jim]

The first thing I did was give props to those sticking by Tillman. Apparently LJ was so offended because I said I thought even his biggest supporters had to be a bit surprised he was this dominant. What a freaking slight that was.

Actually, I took issue with something else: the idea that his supporters would be surprised based on his prior MLB starts. And I took issue with it because our prior argument re: Tillman involved me specifically telling you you should watch him pitch this year before giving up on him wholly based on his prior MLB starts. The fact is, for a number of us, our optimism was based on what we've seen developing. It wasn't some blind faith and hope, as characterized.

It's not a big deal. And I'm definitely (for the moment) patting myself on the back a bit (and a bit feisty). I'm an Oriole fan whose patience and optimism was rewarded with a good performance. You have to realize how rare it is to be optimistic as an O's fan and actually be rewarded for it.

I get to be right (for the moment) without predicting the worst. It's like winning the exacta.

[whynot38]

It wasn't unreasonable to think Tillman stalled out and wasn't going to be a good ML pitcher. He had a great start tonight, he commanded the ball well and had everything working. Next time, maybe he doesn't, maybe he gives up 6 runs in 2 1/3 innings. I don't think its unreasonable to think that its likely he will stutter. People who are saying if he could pitch like this every time out, he'd be an Ace, well, no s***. The question boils down to do you (not you personally) believe that Tillman is going to be consistently what he has shown tonight, or do you think against a potent lineup, he's going to revert back to his old ways. Who knows? This is why we have to watch the games. And for those saying well, Tillman dominated in AAA, I saw this coming, I'll say bull****. Tillman dominated AAA at much younger ages, and people said the same thing, and he fell flat on his face. The stuff is great now, and he might be legit, but he might not be either.

Its not about the results per se. It's about from what we've seen before - Tillman's velocity is up; his command was very good and maybe most importantly to those reporting he had far more movement on his fastball then he did in previous stints. For me, its those things that have me excited, not the results of the game

[higgybaby]

Sorry bud, but his fb had movement in on rightys all day.

While I do agree with that statement (Palmer said it, too) I have to say that I thought his fastball was straight as an arrow. I don't mean to nitpick, but what would the Bronx bombers do to that?

Don't get me wrong - he pitched great and is worlds better than we have ever seen him.

[Lucky Jim]

Obviously the stuff was better than it has been since 2009. Again, I am simply tempering my enthusiasm as its one start against a pretty terrible team in a huge stadium. He looked more relaxed, which I think is a big part of him having the success, he just looked loose and like he was having fun. Now, he was incredibly efficient tonight, but hasn't been that way in AAA, despite the good numbers. It will be very interesting to see how he does against teams that can hit. I wish him nothing but success, he clearly has talent, but it takes more than just talent to succeed at the ML level.

Malike - you're absolutely right. I wasn't trying to disagree. I was just trying to contextualize the discussion. It's not some binary limit of "Tillman as ace or Tillman as reliever." Just nice to see real MLB-quality pitches today. An above average FB, an above average curve, an above average change.

We'll have to wait-and-see re: the velo uptick, but I've got to think the mechanical issues that had him anywhere between 87MPH and 92MPH should be behind him.

[Malike]

Malike - you're absolutely right. I wasn't trying to disagree. I was just trying to contextualize the discussion. It's not some binary limit of "Tillman as ace or Tillman as reliever." Just nice to see real MLB-quality pitches today. An above average FB, an above average curve, an above average change.

We'll have to wait-and-see re: the velo uptick, but I've got to think the mechanical issues that had him anywhere between 87MPH and 92MPH should be behind him.

I agree 100%, and I am very excited for Chris and hope he can sustain it. I will tell you one thing, I never saw 97 in that arm, I figured 93-94 and he was slinging bb's in the 9th.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[ccbird]

It wasn't unreasonable to think Tillman stalled out and wasn't going to be a good ML pitcher. He had a great start tonight, he commanded the ball well and had everything working. Next time, maybe he doesn't, maybe he gives up 6 runs in 2 1/3 innings. I don't think its unreasonable to think that its likely he will stutter. People who are saying if he could pitch like this every time out, he'd be an Ace, well, no s***. The question boils down to do you (not you personally) believe that Tillman is going to be consistently what he has shown tonight, or do you think against a potent lineup, he's going to revert back to his old ways. Who knows? This is why we have to watch the games. And for those saying well, Tillman dominated in AAA, I saw this coming, I'll say bull****. Tillman dominated AAA at much younger ages, and people said the same thing, and he fell flat on his face. The stuff is great now, and he might be legit, but he might not be either.

Absolutely,like I said Im trying not too read too much into 1 start. Obviously he'll get knocked around again at some point. It's just that this was a completely different Tillman than he's ever shown in the bigs. I understand that there has been people here following and reporting on his MILB starts and remained high on him. But show me where someone said hey listen youre gonna see a completely new pitcher out there, this guy has made some really big strides.

[Flash- bd]

Obviously the stuff was better than it has been since 2009. Again, I am simply tempering my enthusiasm as its one start against a pretty terrible team in a huge stadium. He looked more relaxed, which I think is a big part of him having the success, he just looked loose and like he was having fun. Now, he was incredibly efficient tonight, but hasn't been that way in AAA, despite the good numbers. It will be very interesting to see how he does against teams that can hit. I wish him nothing but success, he clearly has talent, but it takes more than just talent to succeed at the ML level.

As whynot above says, it's really not about the results. Honestly, I was prepared to see Tillman limit Seattle to very little but still not be that impressed tonight. I predicted 5 2/3 IP with 1 ER and if that had been the case I would've said, fine, that's what I'd expect against this team.

But I think in cases like these we're so used to being burned by seeing a dominant performance like this--only to be followed by disappointment--that we react the other way, and overcompensate with our cautiousness. So let me be completely honest for a second: I saw a TOR starter today (as I said in my initial post). I don't expect him to be that, but that was a legitimate ace performance; he had a 3 pitch mix, all plus pitches, that he could throw in any count. His command was good. His mechanics were very consistent. His demeanor was good. Almost no one hit the ball hard. You note that he was in a huge park, but frankly this didn't come into play much at all: the longest FB of the game off an Oriole pitcher was the last one off Jim Johnson. Other than that, John Jaso's line drive double is probably about the only really hard hit ball (there was one other LD to Avery in LF for an out).

As you note, there's a difference between being a TOR starter and pitching like one. Jason Hammel pitches like one at times, but he's not one. Chen pitches like one at times, but he's not one. But there's not many players in the league (or in the minors) who can even compete stuff-wise with what Tillman was flashing tonight. Of course just because he pitched like a TOR starter doesn't mean he's going to all of a sudden become one, but there's not many people who can realistically say they have that upside. And even if they don't reach it, they tend to settle down as good #2-4 starters as we're seeing with Jason Hammel.