Help convince me we shouldn't be trading Jim Johnson

[blid]

Think the real question is, why do you wanna trade him? We're 5 games outta first place. You don't sell. IF someone offers the world you gotta take it, but he shouldn't be shopped!

Is their Orioles record sustainable? They haven't been winning lately and they seem to only have two SP. I suppose we can wait on JJ, or not trade him at all, but I'm starting not to put a lot of stock in our current standing. Hopefully Tillman and MGonII pan out as that could make a big difference in getting us back on track.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think Joe Wieland and Robert Erlin was a pretty good return for Mike Adams. (Who wasn't a "closer")

Yeah, good point. Arguably what we got for Koji as well.

[Brendan25]

My philosophywhen it comes to trades is that ANYONE is available, but you don't trade players just to trade them.

I don't care if we trade Johnson, Markakis, Jones, Wieters, or Hardy. But every player has a price, and if I'm trading Jim Johnson right now, I'm getting what we deserve for him.

I'm not too sure if a team would give us what Johnson is worth to this team.

[vab]

I think with the recent demolitions of Arrieta and Matusz as well as Britton's slow start at triple A this year the club will be forced to convert Johnson to a starter next season. It's nice having him to close games but with only two decent starters there isn't going to be much to close. You have to get good starts, then you can worry about closing.

[TheBee]

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... I believe three closers have been traded at the deadline in the last three years. One each year. Sherrill got us Johnson and Bell. Matt Capps got Ramos (injured) and Testa (26 yr old reliever who just got promoted to AA). Krod garnered two players to be named. A few minutes of searching failed to allow me to find who they ended up actually being. Bottom line, other than Ramos in the last three years, closers don't appear to be moving much or at big returns.

[Can_of_corn]

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... I believe three closers have been traded at the deadline in the last three years. One each year. Sherrill got us Johnson and Bell. Matt Capps got Ramos (injured) and Testa (26 yr old reliever who just got promoted to AA). Krod garnered two players to be named. A few minutes of searching failed to allow me to find who they ended up actually being. Bottom line, other than Ramos in the last three years, closers don't appear to be moving much or at big returns.

I think the returns on the Adams, Koji and Gonzo trades were pretty good for the selling teams last season.

Also, Sherrill wasn't really a "closer" he was a guy that was closing. The Dodgers didn't pick him up to close.

[TheBee]

I think the returns on the Adams, Koji and Gonzo trades were pretty good for the selling teams last season.

Also, Sherrill wasn't really a "closer" he was a guy that was closing. The Dodgers didn't pick him up to close.

Well, the Rangers did grab 3 relievers last year - but they gave up only 1 of their preseason top ten prospects in doing so (Erlin #4). It's nice that their system is loaded, and we benefitted from their excess. Sherrill not going to LA to close means that only Capps and Krod have been traded in the past three years. I think the people who want to trade Johnson at the deadline would expect a top package of prospects, my point was simply that the past three years don't seem to suggest that is likely to happen. The Nats got Ramos and a 26 yr old A/AA reliever. What did the Mets get? I didn't find out who the ptbnl were. Would O's fans be happy if Johnson brought 1 top prospect (Ramos was 96th by B America) and a minor league reliever or two players to be named later? The idea of us using Johnson to get a few top quality prospects doesn't seem to follow trends does it?

[Can_of_corn]

Johnson comes with additional time under team control, that increases his value, he isn't just a two month rental.

Also I wouldn't need a king's ransom if the O's are out of the race.

[TheBee]

Johnson comes with additional time under team control, that increases his value, he isn't just a two month rental.

Also I wouldn't need a king's ransom if the O's are out of the race.

You don't need a king's ransom because you don't want to pay a closer what he's likely going to make in arbitration (the downside of team control - sometimes teams prefer rentals at the deadline, don't they). I'd also be willing to bet that many fans will be unhappy trading their all star closer and maybe a future starter? for anything less than a healthy package of two or three quality prospects. I still don't see recent history suggesting the closer for a significant package is likely to happen. If other teams feel the way you do about relievers, it certainly shouldn't. Right? You know what else is interesting about a team trading for Johnson? Would they even be getting a closer for next year? He is on the record as saying he still wants to start, and you'd expect his agent to be on board with that idea.

[mark_beckens]

Is their Orioles record sustainable? They haven't been winning lately and they seem to only have two SP. I suppose we can wait on JJ, or not trade him at all, but I'm starting not to put a lot of stock in our current standing. Hopefully Tillman and MGonII pan out as that could make a big difference in getting us back on track.

How is anyone suppose to know if it's sustainable?

We're 5 1/2 games outta first place and currently are the 2nd WC team. Trading away one of the main reasons your in the position is just plain STUPID!

[FR500]

How is anyone suppose to know if it's sustainable?

We're 5 1/2 games outta first place and currently are the 2nd WC team. Trading away one of the main reasons your in the position is just plain STUPID!

DITTO! DITTO! DITTO!

I got to be honest, threads like this is the #1 reason that I have drifted away from the OH, after being an avid reader for 5 plus years. Really?! Really, we're finally above .500 for the first time since that great 1997 wire-to-wire year and you want to trade one of our 3 all-stars for prospects? Dag, trade all 3 of our All-stars, plus Hardy, Hammels and Chen for a boatload of prospects and just bring up our entire AA team. Dag..... this is the first year in which we should definitely BUYERS... a "quality" outfielder, 3B, DH... more .275+ hitters are sorely needed.... if they can actually field, it would be a plus for the worst field team in baseballl... don't get me starteds.... what an embarrassment. Go Os! Buy, not sell!

[Ampontan]

Caveat: I haven't read any of the notes in this thread, but tonight should show exactly why Johnson shouldn't be traded. Close game against a good team in a critical part of the season with the pitching staff struggling, finished out with NO DRAMA. When was the last time we could say that?

Trading All-Star quality players as they start to become expensive is a small market, perennial second division team philosophy that more often than not results in the team staying in the second division a few more years.

I thought the whole point was not to do that any more.

[WEAVERMAN]

Caveat: I haven't read any of the notes in this thread, but tonight should show exactly why Johnson shouldn't be traded. Close game against a good team in a critical part of the season with the pitching staff struggling, finished out with NO DRAMA. When was the last time we could say that?

Trading All-Star quality players as they start to become expensive is a small market, perennial second division team philosophy that more often than not results in the team staying in the second division a few more years.

I thought the whole point was not to do that any more.

Well said, my friend.

[mark_beckens]

DITTO! DITTO! DITTO!

I got to be honest, threads like this is the #1 reason that I have drifted away from the OH, after being an avid reader for 5 plus years. Really?! Really, we're finally above .500 for the first time since that great 1997 wire-to-wire year and you want to trade one of our 3 all-stars for prospects? Dag, trade all 3 of our All-stars, plus Hardy, Hammels and Chen for a boatload of prospects and just bring up our entire AA team. Dag..... this is the first year in which we should definitely BUYERS... a "quality" outfielder, 3B, DH... more .275+ hitters are sorely needed.... if they can actually field, it would be a plus for the worst field team in baseballl... don't get me starteds.... what an embarrassment. Go Os! Buy, not sell!

I'm on the fence between buying and standing pat. But I don't think we should be selling no matter what. I'll take 81+ wins and no playoffs over selling and ending with 60+ wins.

And I read more then I post. Most of the threads I avoid, cause it's the same nausiating dibble. Someone plays well, threads about trading them, what can we get for them. Player goes into a slump, send them down, trade them for a bag of balls.

[OriolesMagic83]

The only reason I can see trading Johnson is if the O's can get some prospects they can use to get an ace-like pitcher such as Greinke. Aces are a lot harder to find than Johnson. I can only see the O's trading Johnson if they are 5 or more games out of the wild card at the trade deadline. The O's could move Strop to closer and Gonzalez to long relief. Hopefully Lindstrom and O'Day can be adequate in the setup role.