Jake Arrieta needs a one-way ticket to Norfolk

[Lucky Jim]

I think the odds are very high that I don't actually know what I'm talking about.

There ya go.

[Va Beach O's fan]

I can accept most of that. I'm still not sure what makes a demotion the best option if anything other than to get him out of the rotation. What has he got to learn at AAA? A better sinker? A weapon against LHP (to plagarize weams)? Because if it's not about learning or fixing his problems, I'd still take him over Eveland, who just seems like a really awful pitcher to me, worse than Arrieta. More often than not he seems to have no control whatsoever (and again flashes of brilliance but I wouldn't trust him starting). I guess that's not much of an endorsement for Arrieta but that's my opinion.

Ummm.....what did Tillman learn at AAA between his last O's stint and this past start in Seattle? Sometimes confidence and a winning attitude are important.

Right now, Jake's body language is extremely negative, almost like he expects to get shelled. A trip to Norfolk and a few quality starts could do him a lot of good but we can't keep running him out there to get shelled every fifth day.

You have to understand this right? There is no way you can support keeping him in Baltimore anymore after his last several stinkfests.

[Lucky Jim]

Ummm.....what did Tillman learn at AAA between his last O's stint and this past start in Seattle? Sometimes confidence and a winning attitude are important.

Right now' date=' Jake's body language is extremely negative, almost like he expects to get shelled. A trip to Norfolk and a few quality starts could do him a lot of good but we can't keep running him out there to get shelled every fifth day.

You have to understand this right? There is no way you can support keeping him in Baltimore anymore after his last several stinkfests.[/quote']

If I thought the issue were 'confidence' I wouldn't send him down.

Tillman re-worked his mechanics. Confidence isn't responsible for the return of his front-line stuff.

[SteveO]

ERA is a bull**** stat. The results have sucked, the parade of hits have sucked, the untimely walks have sucked, maybe he's not as good as his FIP but he's not as bad as his ERA and while I'm sure he's being demoted I would really appreciate some insight as to what specifically is so broken about his mechanics. God help me if I have to watch an "innings eater."

sigh......

So lets see, ERA is BS, W-L is BS, Jim Palmer and numerous other pitching analysts talk about how looks "Lost and completely ineffective" . Palmer and others have forgotten more about pitching than me or than you people and your FIP's etc lol

I get you like the guy but ......really???

[Va Beach O's fan]

I know you don't.

I didn't need any of those things, lol. I weighed Jake Arrieta versus Dana Eveland/Miguel Gonzalez and decided Arrieta is still a better option.

You are wrong. Flat out. Buck coming out and showing him up on the mound tonight is all the proof I need that Arrieta will be gone after this game. Gonzo is a much better option than Jake's 3 inning, 7 run debacle every week. Again, I think you are just messing with people to get a reaction because no one in their right mind can witness what we saw tonight from Jake and conclude that he should still be on a major league roster. No one.

[EutawBomber]

There ya go.

I have played/coached/managed as many major league games as you have. I don't necessarily care for the opinions of arrogant blowhards, but I will be willing to accept your apology when Arrita doesn't turn into the Cy Young winner you blindly expect.

[Flash- bd]

Ummm.....what did Tillman learn at AAA between his last O's stint and this past start in Seattle? Sometimes confidence and a winning attitude are important.

Right now' date=' Jake's body language is extremely negative, almost like he expects to get shelled. A trip to Norfolk and a few quality starts could do him a lot of good but we can't keep running him out there to get shelled every fifth day.

[b']You have to understand this right?[/b] There is no way you can support keeping him in Baltimore anymore after his last several stinkfests.

No no, no one understands it but you, trust me.

Least of all Duquette. What was he thinking letting go of Jamie Moyer! Idiot! Bad, bad, bad, Dan, Bad.

[Lucky Jim]

I have played/coached/managed as many major league games as you have. I don't necessarily care for the opinions of arrogant blowhards, but I will be willing to accept your apology when Arrita doesn't turn into the Cy Young winner you blindly expect.

And yet your self-love is palpable (and represented in most of your posts).

I haven't been defending Arrieta. But he has nothing in common with the pitchers you've listed, and they have little in common with each other. It's a half-baked, if not half-ass, analysis. I may be arrogant, or a blowhard, or both. But I can read. And I can support my points.

[Va Beach O's fan]

If I thought the issue were 'confidence' I wouldn't send him down.

Tillman re-worked his mechanics. Confidence isn't responsible for the return of his front-line stuff.

You don't think his body language is terrible? Confidence IS important for a pitcher, not everything is advanced metrics, sometimes a guy knowing how to get a guy out and BELIEVING he can do it is just as important.

Get him down to AAA, let them work on his mechanics AND hopefully rebuild his confidence and between the two of those, maybe somewhere we will find the "bulldog" again. But the status quo of him getting rocked every time out just cannot work anymore.

[EutawBomber]

And yet your self-love is palpable (and represented in most of your posts).

I haven't been defending Arrieta. But he has nothing in common with the pitchers you've listed, and they have little in common with each other. It's a half-baked, if not half-ass, analysis. I may be arrogant, or a blowhard, or both. But I can read. And I can support my points.

We will see which one Jake ends up being. You think Whitey Ford, I think closer to Matt Riley. We will see.

[Barnaby Graves]

This post is intended to screw around with people right? There is no chance this is a serious post trying to defend a bum like Arrieta right? If Moyer had been called up and given us 12 straight performances like the one's Arrieta has given us' date=' there is ZERO chance you would be defending him.

Speaking of which, any chance we can get him back? We sure could use a craft veteran pitcher right about now. I think it was a BIG mistake not to call him up and let Hunter go earlier to see what we could get out of him.

Bad move Duquette, bad move.[/quote']

Ummm.....what did Tillman learn at AAA between his last O's stint and this past start in Seattle? Sometimes confidence and a winning attitude are important.

Yeah he also learned 17 pounds of muscle and (according to Palmer) improved mechanics <i>and what I've been driving at is that without a physical explanation for Jake's struggles there's no reason to send him down and keep Eveland in the rotation.</i> I heard all this crap about how he DOES have confidence and a winning attitude and he's our bulldog, when he struggles it's because he's lost, but he's not allowed to say he's lost because then he's weak, but if he struggles and he says he's not lost and he's just unlucky, then that means he doesn't get it and he's stupid and thickheaded and <b>you people won't make up your minds.</b>

Right now, Jake's body language is extremely negative, almost like he expects to get shelled. A trip to Norfolk and a few quality starts could do him a lot of good but we can't keep running him out there to get shelled every fifth day.

You have to understand this right? There is no way you can support keeping him in Baltimore anymore after his last several stinkfests.

His stinkfests against Pittsburgh and Washington were awesome and while I agree that I am cherrypicking those good starts, he's simply a better pitcher than Eveland to me. That's all that really matters, is our options, and Arrieta is still a better one than him any day.

[weams]

Moyer had an 8 plus era with Toronto's AAA team in two start before he was released tonight.

[Lucky Jim]

You don't think his body language is terrible? Confidence IS important for a pitcher' date=' not everything is advanced metrics, sometimes a guy knowing how to get a guy out and BELIEVING he can do it is just as important.

Get him down to AAA, let them work on his mechanics AND hopefully rebuild his confidence and between the two of those, maybe somewhere we will find the "bulldog" again. But the status quo of him getting rocked every time out just cannot work anymore.[/quote']

Looking bad on the mound tends to go hand-in-hand with performing bad on the mound, in particular after numerous bad starts.

[Lucky Jim]

We will see which one Jake ends up being. You think Whitey Ford, I think closer to Matt Riley. We will see.

Do you have a link to where I've compared Arrieta to any great pitcher?

I've said before that I think his upside is something like Gil Meche. I think his downside is probably a reliever.

[Moose Milligan]

Yeah he also learned 17 pounds of muscle and (according to Palmer) improved mechanics <i>and what I've been driving at is that without a physical explanation for Jake's struggles there's no reason to send him down and keep Eveland in the rotation.</i> I heard all this crap about how he DOES have confidence and a winning attitude and he's our bulldog, when he struggles it's because he's lost, but he's not allowed to say he's lost because then he's weak, but if he struggles and he says he's not lost and he's just unlucky, then that means he doesn't get it and he's stupid and thickheaded and <b>you people won't make up your minds.</b>

His stinkfests against Pittsburgh and Washington were awesome and while I agree that I am cherrypicking those good starts, he's simply a better pitcher than Eveland to me. That's all that really matters, is our options, and Arrieta is still a better one than him any day.

Based on what, exactly? That Jake is young, and has some upside? some whips, dips and chips? fip?

If you want to argue potential and pure stuff, I might agree with you but Jake sucks right now. He needs to go. Your precious fip doesn't measure the fact that Jake can't locate anything right now.