Orioles are "going hard" after Zack Greinke

[Leitch]

To me, the only real good argument you have for trading Grienke is the idea that he'll extend with whoever else he gets traded to if not us, which obviously prevents us from just throwing a whole bunch of money at him come Christmas time.

[Dark Helmet]

Pretty simple: the trade doesn't get us the extension. It may get us a window, I guess. So the best you can say the trade gets us is: 3 mos. and an opportunity to extend. Not much added, in the end, especially given the extreme unlikelihood that Greinke wants to extend.

The window usually occurs before trade is finalized. If no extension happens during the window, then the O's could choose to..

a) Back out

b) try and work out a deal involving different/ lesser prospects

c) go ahead with trade and hope they can extend him.

I don't see any team giving up much for just 3 months of Greinke with the new rules of no compensation.That took alot of leverage away from the Brewers imo.

[tntoriole]

The window usually occurs before trade is finalized. If no extension happens during the window, then the O's could choose to..

a) Back out

b) try and work out a deal involving different/ lesser prospects

c) go ahead with trade and hope they can extend him.

I don't see any team giving up much for just 3 months of Greinke with the new rules of no compensation.That took alot of leverage away from the Brewers imo.

Agree with this...rentals of top players (who, by definition, are in their walk year) will be MUCH less common than in years past because of the change in rules of compensation.

[Lucky Jim]

The window usually occurs before trade is finalized. If no extension happens during the window, then the O's could choose to..

a) Back out

b) try and work out a deal involving different/ lesser prospects

c) go ahead with trade and hope they can extend him.

I don't see any team giving up much for just 3 months of Greinke with the new rules of no compensation.That took alot of leverage away from the Brewers imo.

I don't disagree. And I don't think this clashes much with my analysis - just pointing out that the extension itself is not a component of the trade. That's cash on top of the trade.

[EutawBomber]

This series has proven once again that the Orioles cannot compete with the big boys. I hope DD doesn't do seomthing rash and mortgage the future just to add this weak, talentless foundation.

[MrOrange82]

This series has proven once again that the Orioles cannot compete with the big boys. I hope DD doesn't do something rash and mortgage the future.

Edited for spelling and more accurate content.

[Boca Bird]

This series has proven once again that the Orioles cannot compete with the big boys. I hope DD doesn't do seomthing rash and mortgage the future just to add this weak, talentless foundation.

Would you still say that if Arrieta didnt cough up a nice 6-3 cushion the other night?

Maybe an accomplished veteran doesnt cough up the lead in 3 2/3 innings and then we split a 4 gm road series with one of the undisputed "big boys" and prove that we arent going away

[Dark Helmet]

Would you still say that if Arrieta didnt cough up a nice 6-3 cushion the other night?

Maybe an accomplished veteran doesnt cough up the lead in 3 2/3 innings and then we split a 4 gm road series with one of the undisputed "big boys" and prove that we arent going away

Yeah I don't really get the "We aren't good enough so don't bother" argument. Isn't that how you usually get better, by umm adding more players. I agree that Bunny and Machado are untouchable, as they should be (Schoop if possible) but the sit back and wait for the prospects to come up and save us hasn't worked. Besides as long as you keep Bundy and Machado untouchable your still keeping the main clogs . At this point, I won't lose any sleep trading Arietta , Mats, Britton , or even Schoop to an extent.

[Lucky Jim]

Yeah I don't really get the "We aren't good enough so don't bother" argument. Isn't that how you usually get better, by umm adding more players. I agree that Bunny and Machado are untouchable, as they should be (Schoop if possible) but the sit back and wait for the prospects to come up and save us hasn't worked. Besides as long as you keep Bundy and Machado untouchable your still keeping the main clogs . At this point, I won't lose any sleep trading Arietta , Mats, Britton , or even Schoop to an extent.

Is this something like a "main clog"?

[video=youtube;s2WywwxWbvY]

The argument that we're not good enough and thus shouldn't bother applies to short-term help. Not long-term help.

[Dark Helmet]

Is this something like a "main clog"?

[video=youtube;s2WywwxWbvY]

The argument that we're not good enough and thus shouldn't bother applies to short-term help. Not long-term help.

I agree, but trading prospects (while in theory) hurts the long term, your also countering that if you extend Greinke. If you can get a known commeodity like Greinke and extend him while holding onto your top 2 prospects, I don't think your mortgaging the future. While Bundy and Machado are no guarantees, i think the talent level drops off greatly after those two, making it less likely we are losing much that would hamper the O's.

Like i said, my argument is based solely on us extending Greinke if we did indeed trade for him.

[Flash- bd]

Another reason trading for Greinke is a really bad idea. He is one of the sexiest names in a 2013 FA pitching class which is loaded with talent and potential steals. Greinke and Hamels (and probably Peavy)--like most big name FAs with that "it" factor--will be overpaid. But check out all the other names who could be major upgrades for MUCH less:

(Peavy: 22M club option vs. 4M buyout--have to think they'll opt for the latter)

Ryan Dempster

Dan Haren (15.5 M club option vs. 3.5 M buyout--have to think they'll opt for the latter)

Edwin Jackson

Bartolo Colon

Francisco Liriano

Scott Baker

Colby Lewis

Shaun Marcum

Brandon McCarthy

Anibal Sanchez

Ervin Santana (13M club option vs 1M buyout--have to think they'll opt for the latter)

Joe Saunders

Chien-Ming Wang

Chris Young

Carlos Zambrano

Hiroki Kuroda

Honestly, it's not only trading for 2-3 months of Greinke which is a terrible idea. It might also be potentially overpaying for him for the next 3-5 years on an extension, when there are better, more cost effective alternatives outside (and arguably within, if you believe Matusz and Arrieta can become competent starters as I believe they can) the organization.

Hell, if it's true that the Braves are willing to offer Delgado or Teheran for Greinke, why not see what Hammel can fetch from them? I was thoroughly impressed by Delgado when he pitched against us.

[24fps]

Is this something like a "main clog"?

[video=youtube;s2WywwxWbvY]

The argument that we're not good enough and thus shouldn't bother applies to short-term help. Not long-term help.

FWIW whoever wants to watch this clip from start to finish will see a truly great ethnographic documentary cameraman at work. It's all about being in the moment, folks...

[Tx Oriole]

Let me also say, that I'm not in favor of the trade in general. I would be surprised if the O's were not required to put in either Bundy or Machado in the deal. However, if that situation arises and Duq has to give up 5 pieces surrounding Schoop, Avery, Britton, Mtusz, etc. I'm still against it. Like people have been saying, this team is wayyyyyyyyy too flawed to be making moves like this.

Like I said if we can get a fleece, then lets fleece them. There have been crazy boneheaded trades before

Where do you get the idea the O's would required to put in Bundy and or Machado? DD said they are off limits. So thye are. I dont beleive trhere is any need to worry abut the O's losing their top two prospects. I would like the O's to have Zack but only if he will sign an extension.

[Justinlstn]

I'd be happy if we got Greinke but if he makes it known that he won't extend with us i would be happy with Wandy Rodriguez at the right price. He is just and under rated guy and give us some stability in our rotation. We only have 2 constant guys in our rotation. If we can't get the elite pitchers i have no problem having 5 3rd Tier pitchers like Wandy, Edwin Jackson (i wish we signed him), Marcum. Sadly we had 8 SP options before the season and were still looking for more pitching.

[Roll Tide]

I just dont know how this team gets Greinke without cutting the handful of really good players in the farm system.

Since I doubt DD adds Bundy or Machado to the deal...It would cost 4-5 other guys, loosing Schoop and Hoes plus 2 of Matusz,Arrieta, & Britton would be way to much ...even with a extension.

Further ... I dont know if the cost of Garza would worth the difference between him and Dempster or Saunders.