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Preaching patience with Chris Davis...


EagleOriole

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Sorry about the snark, but Davis' one overwhelming weakness is his control of the strike zone. It seems ridiculous to say he'd be a far better player if he had control of the strike zone. Well, of course, and I'd be a much better basketball player if I wasn't 5' 8".

I'm agreeing with you on this. If Davis had strike zone control, no way he'd be available as a second viable piece of a trade involving a 35 year old (albeit very good) relief pitcher.

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You take a guy who mostly plays DH/1B/3B and put him in the outfield then he has a whole new set of things to think about. Balls going over his head, angles to the ball, angles to the wall, how does his lack of speed play. There is just a lot to it for someone that has not been doing it. Yes, Davis has done well in the OF considering his speed. But what is going on in his head and does it distract from the way he was thinking when he goes to bat. Posters has talked about it as being streaky and a slump. Both can be true but was there a cause? Did he getting out of his normal patterns, both physical and mental, with the chance to the OF. I think it is very possible. Can and is he adjusting. That is also possible.

Like I said before, anything is possible. It just seems improbable that this would be causing him to have crappy AB's for such a long period of time. If it's true that such a scenario is in fact affecting Davis to such a degree, I'd have to question his general mental toughness going forward anyways and wonder what bit of adversity is going to affect him next.

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Like I said before, anything is possible. It just seems improbable that this would be causing him to have crappy AB's for such a long period of time. If it's true that such a scenario is in fact affecting Davis to such a degree, I'd have to question his general mental toughness going forward anyways and wonder what bit of adversity is going to affect him next.

C'mon, let's not be politically correct or mince words here, take it a step further: if Chris Davis' mental state were so fragile that this would be having this much of an effect, he wouldn't have even made it to the bigs in the first place. Big league hitters have to go through A LOT more difficult mental struggles than switching positions (especially from a harder one to an easier one), not the least of which is increasing levels while developing in the minors. Also, we haven't even made the most obvious argument yet: Chris Davis played 54 games in the OF in the MiLs. As far as we know, it didn't seem to ruin his swing as it apparently has here according to Wildcard.

You've got to draw the line somewhere. If you allow this position switch argument as even somewhat deserving of merit there's all kinds of crazy things you have to dance around and be politically correct about and not discard perfunctorily, which is the tidy thing to do.

EDIT: I hope my tone reads as playful here, that's how I intended it. Sometimes I just feel too lame adding the emoticons to try and give hints to my tone...

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Like I said before, anything is possible. It just seems improbable that this would be causing him to have crappy AB's for such a long period of time. If it's true that such a scenario is in fact affecting Davis to such a degree, I'd have to question his general mental toughness going forward anyways and wonder what bit of adversity is going to affect him next.

Weaver specialized in putting players in situations they could do well in and avoided asking them to thing they did poorly. I think Davis has shown he is really good DH. I wouldn't be down on him because we expect him to do things that he is not as good at doing. He is cheap, healthy and in the right circumstance can hit well. He can be an asset to the team over the next few years.

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C'mon, let's not be politically correct or mince words here, take it a step further: if Chris Davis' mental state were so fragile that this would be having this much of an effect, he wouldn't have even made it to the bigs in the first place. Big league hitters have to go through A LOT more difficult mental struggles than switching positions (especially from a harder one to an easier one), not the least of which is increasing levels while developing in the minors. Also, we haven't even made the most obvious argument yet: Chris Davis played 54 games in the OF in the MiLs. As far as we know, it didn't seem to ruin his swing as it apparently has here according to Wildcard.

You've got to draw the line somewhere. If you allow this position switch argument as even somewhat deserving of merit there's all kinds of crazy things you have to dance around and be politically correct about and not discard perfunctorily, which is the tidy thing to do.

EDIT: I hope my tone reads as playful here, that's how I intended it. Sometimes I just feel too lame adding the emoticons to try and give hints to my tone...

Ok, I'll change my position to "highly improbable".

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C'mon, let's not be politically correct or mince words here, take it a step further: if Chris Davis' mental state were so fragile that this would be having this much of an effect, he wouldn't have even made it to the bigs in the first place. Big league hitters have to go through A LOT more difficult mental struggles than switching positions (especially from a harder one to an easier one), not the least of which is increasing levels while developing in the minors. Also, we haven't even made the most obvious argument yet: Chris Davis played 54 games in the OF in the MiLs. As far as we know, it didn't seem to ruin his swing as it apparently has here according to Wildcard.

You've got to draw the line somewhere. If you allow this position switch argument as even somewhat deserving of merit there's all kinds of crazy things you have to dance around and be politically correct about and not discard perfunctorily, which is the tidy thing to do.

EDIT: I hope my tone reads as playful here, that's how I intended it. Sometimes I just feel too lame adding the emoticons to try and give hints to my tone...

Chris Davis did not make it to the majors on what he did in the OF. The way he hit as a 1B/DH got him promoted.

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Ok, I'll change my position to "highly improbable".

Good, now I'm satisfied.

(Haha, we clearly agree, I'm just more of an impatient douchebag about making my point than you are.)

Well I'm convinced your not Sports Guy now! ;)

You never know...if Chris Tillman of 2012 is Chris Tillman of 2011, maybe Sports Guy of 2011 is me of 2012? Er, wait, I'm confused.

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Weaver specialized in putting players in situations they could do well in and avoided asking them to thing they did poorly. I think Davis has shown he is really good DH. I wouldn't be down on him because we expect him to do things that he is not as good at doing. He is cheap, healthy and in the right circumstance can hit well. He can be an asset to the team over the next few years.

Yes, but Earl Weaver did not base his philosophy on voodoo. He did not want guys trying to drive in runs or trying be the hero. He believed in the strength of the overall lineup and that guys should play within their individual strengths. For example, if you were pitched around then he would want you to take the walk. That's the context of Weaver's statement. He would look at matchup for platoon players. He would also play guys through unbelieveable slumps. I could almost guarantee you he would not be looking at the type of data and conclusions you are throwing out there.

An approximate 96-100 OPS+ guy is not a great DH candidate.

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I'm agreeing with you on this. If Davis had strike zone control, no way he'd be available as a second viable piece of a trade involving a 35 year old (albeit very good) relief pitcher.
What's the difefrence between strike zone control and P/PA? Davis is 4.08 P/PA. it seems to me he has the eye to take more walks, just not the inclination. He probably is being encouraged to be more aggressive than he should be, especially with 2 strikes, because of his power.
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BTW, the only thing I will say is that Davis' current slump corresponded with his move to the outfield. The numbers spell that out, but I don't believe it's accurate to say it's the REASON for his slump. He's had slumps similar to this one previously this year when he put up a .233/.287/.407/.694 line in 24 games games covering 94 PAs when he exclusively played 1B/DH.

Either way, he needs to find his way out of this quagmire or he will risk losing playing time.

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Yes, but Earl Weaver did not base his philosophy on voodoo. He did not want guys trying to drive in runs or trying be the hero. He believed in the strength of the overall lineup and that guys should play within their individual strengths. For example, if you were pitched around then he would want you to take the walk. That's the context of Weaver's statement. He would also play guys through unbelieveable slumps. I could almost guarantee you he would not be looking at the type of data and conclusions you are throwing out there.

An approximate 96-100 OPS+ guy is not a great DH candidate.

Davis has a 906 OPS this year as a DH and a 948 OPS in his career as a DH. Weaver would have taken either one.

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Yes, but Earl Weaver did not base his philosophy on voodoo. He did not want guys trying to drive in runs or trying be the hero. He believed in the strength of the overall lineup and that guys should play within their individual strengths. For example, if you were pitched around then he would want you to take the walk. That's the context of Weaver's statement. He would look at matchup for platoon players. He would also play guys through unbelieveable slumps. I could almost guarantee you he would not be looking at the type of data and conclusions you are throwing out there.

An approximate 96-100 OPS+ guy is not a great DH candidate.

Yes, thank you. Earl put people in positions to succeed, but he didn't do it by looking at how someone hit over the last week and a half while playing left field and base everything on that.

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What's the difefrence between strike zone control and P/PA? Davis is 4.08 P/PA. it seems to me he has the eye to take more walks, just not the inclination. He probably is being encouraged to be more aggressive than he should be, especially with 2 strikes, because of his power.

Well, I think something that might be staring you in the face is, it takes at least 3 pitches to K. Usually more. He's going to see more pitches than Tejada or Pierre (or whoever) because of that fact, but that doesn't mean he's going to walk more.

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Davis has a 906 OPS this year as a DH and a 948 OPS in his career as a DH. Weaver would have taken either one.

You do realize that he has 110 career PAs as a DH, right? And that you can infer almost nothing from that, right?

No, of course you don't. You truly and deeply believe that nothing should be regressed and that all random spikes and dips have meaning.

Davis also has a .968 OPS as a pinch hitter. I think they need to hold him out of the game until the key moments in the late innings. Can you imagine the advantages of having a .968 player batting instead of Flaherty or Chavez when it really counts?!

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