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Hope Dan is on the Phones....


Greg

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There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we could get comparable production from Zealous Wheeler/Nate McLouth/Steve Johnson as from Polanco/Blanton/Pierre. I've hung by the Orioles for over 30 years - but if we trade live humans for Polanco/Blanton/Pierre that would sorely test my faith. Now if we're able to acquire them for inanimate objects - some line chalk or something - then maybe I could live with it.

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Yes multiplayer trade could be polanco blanton pierre. That would address 3 holes in one trade and probly not break the farm or our budget. If these are players coming to us wonder who would be going to philly. I'd like to be able to pry dominic brown from them as well.

Lineup with these additions

Pierre lf

Markakis rf

Thome dh

Jones cf

Weiters c

Hardy ss

betemit 1bDavis/Renolds 1B

polanco 3b

flaherty 2b

Philly could have a use for Betemit. He is a good role player type for a NL team and is cheap next year.
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Whether you believe the O's have enough money or not, the fact is Peter Angelos hasn't shown, with the exception of the late 90's, the willingness to pay for "premium" talent. Everyone needs starting pitching and once Greinke and Hammels reach free agency then they are going to be highly coveted. As you say, the O's can compete with the medium to low markets but if NY, Boston, LA, Detroit or any other of the larger markets get involved and the price skyrockets well you can just forget it.

No, the O's can compete dollar for dollar with the Yankees and the Red Sox (not on every player but on individual ones). But we lack the intangibles that can't be quantified in dollar figures. Essentially, unless a free agent has an aversion to playing for the big name teams (especially NYY or Boston) or a peculiar desire to play in Baltimore, he will always choose New York or Boston over Baltimore. Not for the money alone, but for added value of spotlight and a chance to compete.

If we had match and exceeded the Yankees offer to Teixeira he still would not have come here. He would have (perhaps correctly) concluded we weren't going to win and that playing in New York had significant advantages over playing in Baltimore.

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There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we could get comparable production from Zealous Wheeler/Nate McLouth/Steve Johnson as from Polanco/Blanton/Pierre. I've hung by the Orioles for over 30 years - but if we trade live humans for Polanco/Blanton/Pierre that would sorely test my faith. Now if we're able to acquire them for inanimate objects - some line chalk or something - then maybe I could live with it.
There's probably no doubt in your mind that the moon is made of green cheese as well. :laughlol: Seriously, Polanco gives you a defensive upgrade at 3B. Pierre is a .300 BA, .348 OBP, 21 SB, top of the order bat for next to nothing, and Blanton is extra SP depth. As long as Schoop, Avery and Hoes aren't involved, I don't see the problem. Wheeler McLouth aren't on the 40 man, so you lose players to make room.
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I was being hyperbolic talking about line chalk - but if we get them for absolutely nothing - like a Grade Z prospect - fine. I was also throwing out names of guys we have in AAA who would be as good - I know a couple aren't on the 40 man. Otherwise, Pierre has a .348 OBP but also a .348 SLG (not really - but you get it) and is pretty bad defensively, Polanco may be a D upgrade at 3rd (heck Eddie Gaedel would be an upgrade on D at 3B over what we've run out there) but he's not exactly a defensive stalwart at 3b and he's awful on offense, and Blanton has little to no chance of putting up a sub 5.00 ERA in the AL IMO. If we got them for free - ok - but we can't part with any assets for players of this calibre IMO.

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No, the O's can compete dollar for dollar with the Yankees and the Red Sox (not on every player but on individual ones). But we lack the intangibles that can't be quantified in dollar figures. Essentially, unless a free agent has an aversion to playing for the big name teams (especially NYY or Boston) or a peculiar desire to play in Baltimore, he will always choose New York or Boston over Baltimore. Not for the money alone, but for added value of spotlight and a chance to compete.

If we had match and exceeded the Yankees offer to Teixeira he still would not have come here. He would have (perhaps correctly) concluded we weren't going to win and that playing in New York had significant advantages over playing in Baltimore.

You are smoking crack if you think this is true. The O's are NOT a large market team and will NEVER be. Especially with the Nats taking a chunk of their market.

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You are smoking crack if you think this is true. The O's are NOT a large market team and will NEVER be. Especially with the Nats taking a chunk of their market.

They will never be able to sport 200+ million dollar payrolls sure. But on a single player they can compete with anybody. They can (and perhaps may) open the check book for people like Greinke or Hamels. Problem is those guys just aren't interested, why would they be? It's not about the money here, money can't buy you a ring nor can it buy you fame. Playing in LA, New York, and even Boston, can.

I remember listening to the Tony Kornheiser show down here in 2007 (I still have the podcast on my ipod). He had Tim Kurkjian on talking about the O's right after firing Perlozzo. He was talking about how Angelos has tried over the years to open the check book and bring guys in, except nobody wanted to play in Baltimore (he even mentioned Carlos Lee by name). The problem isn't the money, it's our perceived ineptitude.

Stated differently: if Angelos had won the Mega Million lottery in the fall of 2008 and offered Teixeira 10 years and 250 million, there's still no way he would have signed with us. No way. Playing for the Yankees for less offered him a better return. As it would for many ball players.

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I was being hyperbolic talking about line chalk - but if we get them for absolutely nothing - like a Grade Z prospect - fine. I was also throwing out names of guys we have in AAA who would be as good - I know a couple aren't on the 40 man. Otherwise, Pierre has a .348 OBP but also a .348 SLG (not really - but you get it) and is pretty bad defensively, Polanco may be a D upgrade at 3rd (heck Eddie Gaedel would be an upgrade on D at 3B over what we've run out there) but he's not exactly a defensive stalwart at 3b and he's awful on offense, and Blanton has little to no chance of putting up a sub 5.00 ERA in the AL IMO. If we got them for free - ok - but we can't part with any assets for players of this calibre IMO.
Pierre is a defensive upgrade over Davis, and his .346 OBP and 23 SB would be the best on the team by far. We have enough SLG guys we need guys who get get on base and steal a few. Polanco is a +2.9 UZR 3B. That's a big upgrade. You're right about Blanton, but he gives you depth. As long as we aren't giving up Bundy, Machado, Schoop, Avery, and Hoes, that trade improves the team.
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Assuming we'd trade less than a Top 15ish prospect to get him, I wouldn't mind Pierre. Especially if we keep Reynolds, which would allow more mixing and matching at 3b/1b/Dh between Thome/Betemit/Reynolds/Davis as I have been advocating since the Thome trade.

Don't want Blanton, would rather just give those IPs to Hunter or someone like Jason Berken.

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They will never be able to sport 200+ million dollar payrolls sure. But on a single player they can compete with anybody. They can (and perhaps may) open the check book for people like Greinke or Hamels. Problem is those guys just aren't interested, why would they be? It's not about the money here, money can't buy you a ring nor can it buy you fame. Playing in LA, New York, and even Boston, can.

I remember listening to the Tony Kornheiser show down here in 2007 (I still have the podcast on my ipod). He had Tim Kurkjian on talking about the O's right after firing Perlozzo. He was talking about how Angelos has tried over the years to open the check book and bring guys in, except nobody wanted to play in Baltimore (he even mentioned Carlos Lee by name). The problem isn't the money, it's our perceived ineptitude.

Stated differently: if Angelos had won the Mega Million lottery in the fall of 2008 and offered Teixeira 10 years and 250 million, there's still no way he would have signed with us. No way. Playing for the Yankees for less offered him a better return. As it would for many ball players.

I see your point now and agree.

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Pierre lf

Markakis rf

Thome dh

Jones cf

Weiters c

Hardy ss

betemit 1b

polanco 3b

flaherty 2b

Yikes. That doesn't remotely resemble a playoff lineup if you ask me. If that is where our best trade option gets us then we should either be sellers or stand pat.

I happen to think that there are trades out there to make that will help us, but this isn't one of the better ones.

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Just watching the Mid Atlantic Sports Report. There is just a boat load of talent available that I believe can be had without giving up much on our end. If we tried to get Span, Morneau, and Liriano from Minnesota, I think we could get all three with minimal impact to our MLB roster and without giving up Machado, Bundy, Arrieta, or Matusz.

I would probably offer Avery or Hoes, Schoop, Socolovich, Flaherty, and Berken. If it got the deal done, I would include one of Matusz or Arrieta.

I realize that this is a package without any real headliners, but this isn't exactly three all stars, either. And judging by the recent trade market, I think this could be fairly close to a real deal. Minn wants to shed payroll, and this could be their chance to let all three guys go in one shot.

Lots of other talent around the league. We can probably get an impact player without digging too deep I to the farm.

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Just watching the Mid Atlantic Sports Report. There is just a boat load of talent available that I believe can be had without giving up much on our end. If we tried to get Span, Morneau, and Liriano from Minnesota, I think we could get all three with minimal impact to our MLB roster and without giving up Machado, Bundy, Arrieta, or Matusz.

I would probably offer Avery or Hoes, Schoop, Socolovich, Flaherty, and Berken. If it got the deal done, I would include one of Matusz or Arrieta.

I realize that this is a package without any real headliners, but this isn't exactly three all stars, either. And judging by the recent trade market, I think this could be fairly close to a real deal. Minn wants to shed payroll, and this could be their chance to let all three guys go in one shot.

Lots of other talent around the league. We can probably get an impact player without digging too deep I to the farm.

I agree that all 3 could be had at an affordable price, but why would we want Morneau? Unless you're trading Reynolds or eating his salary Morneau has no place to play. Same thing goes for Span. Are we better with Span in LF, with Davis/ Reynolds/Betemit sharing duties at 1b/3b? Are you dropping/trading one of them? Point is, we can't add 3 ML players to this team w/o making changes to our current roster and I'm not sure this team is actually "better" with Morneau and Span. At least not so great that I'd want to trade Schoop, Avery, +++

Give me a true 3B or a nice SP. Otherwise, I think I'd rather see us watch the world go by.

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I agree that all 3 could be had at an affordable price, but why would we want Morneau? Unless you're trading Reynolds or eating his salary Morneau has no place to play. Same thing goes for Span. Are we better with Span in LF, with Davis/ Reynolds/Betemit sharing duties at 1b/3b? Are you dropping/trading one of them? Point is, we can't add 3 ML players to this team w/o making changes to our current roster and I'm not sure this team is actually "better" with Morneau and Span. At least not so great that I'd want to trade Schoop, Avery, +++

Give me a true 3B or a nice SP. Otherwise, I think I'd rather see us watch the world go by.

All valid points. I would prefer to see Chavez back in his 4th OF role. I would have said something about Minn taking Reynolds back, but I didn't think they'd want him. Morneau at least gives us a bonafide 1st baseman, and Liriano is what we are looking for. Really, the Thome acquisition is what blocks this. But I wouldn't be afraid to give up any of the prospects I mentioned for any player.

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