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I like Machado, but.....


baltfan

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I do not think that any prospect should be labeled untouchable. If someone wants to give up a young All Star talent at a position of need for our prospect(s) than we should listen. If the Brewers called and offered Braun for Machado, Schoop, Arrieta and the 1st round supplemental pick do we say no? I think that a prospects real value is not so much performance, but cheap and controlled performance, but the performance part is not a guarantee.

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Harper had a .724 OPS in 37 games at AA and a .690 OPS in 21 games at AAA.

I'm pretty sure Machado will be fine.

But he's not an Orioles prospect. It has been quite a few years since any Orioles prospect lived up to the hopes we had on OH.

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I definitely wouldn't trade Machado for any of the deadline names being bandied about this year. Too many question marks to justify giving away what will in all likelihood be at least an above-average, cost-controlled SS.

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But he's not an Orioles prospect. It has been quite a few years since any Orioles prospect lived up to the hopes we had on OH.

I get what your saying but smart teams keep great prospects. The fact the Orioles have not been able to get prospects to live up to hopes is not a reason to not follow the smart way of doing business, its a reason to change the way and the system in which the prospects are developed. Guess I am saying if you start trading prospects like Machado and Bundy cause we cannot have confidence we can develop them, you have not corrected the very thing that has lead the O's to this point. Without fixing that problem, this team is doomed to mediocrity. I think they are making changes to improve in that area and we should give them the chance to produce some results. just my opinion though

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I definitely wouldn't trade Machado for any of the deadline names being bandied about this year. Too many question marks to justify giving away what will in all likelihood be at least an above-average, cost-controlled SS.

I agree, I would be putting JJ Hardy on the market. I will never say that I hope that the Orioles lose, but I wish we were either a little further out of that wild card spot (5-6 games) or in the lead by 2-3 games and playing a little better.

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I get what your saying but smart teams keep great prospects. The fact the Orioles have not been able to get prospects to live up to hopes is not a reason to not follow the smart way of doing business, its a reason to change the way and the system in which the prospects are developed. Guess I am saying if you start trading prospects like Machado and Bundy cause we cannot have confidence we can develop them, you have not corrected the very thing that has lead the O's to this point. Without fixing that problem, this team is doomed to mediocrity. I think they are making changes to improve in that area and we should give them the chance to produce some results. just my opinion though

The Orioles holes right now are LF, 3B, 1B, 2B, SP#1 and SP#2/SP#3. Machado, Bundy and Schoop are not helping this team. Most of our premium guys are young as well. A good team would have fewer holes and could use those premium prospects to fix 2-3 oles in a manner that helped this club for more than one season.

Example:

Machado is traded for Upton.

Schoop, Matusz, Avery and 2013 supplemental pick are traded for Headley and Richard.

Bundy+ is traded for Johnson and Morrison.

The Orioles didn't fill every need, but they got an All Star caiber LF and #1/#2 SP in addition to an above average 3B. That team is better equiped to compete in 2012 and a big free agent signing or two in 2013 could set them up for a nice run.

Markakis

Headley

Jones

Upton

Hardy

Thome/Betemit

Weiters

Davis/Reynolds

2B

Johnson

Hammel

Chen

Richard

Britton/Tillman

Davis/Reynolds

Thome/Betemit

Andino/2B

Teagarden

Chavez

Strop

Johnson

Ayala

Patton

Arrieta

Gregg

O'Day

Again, not saying to deal Machado or Bundy because I like those guys, but tons of top prospects have faltered. With that said, if I thought that I could make the Orioles better over the long term and someone loved those guys enough to pay, I would give them up.

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The Orioles holes right now are LF, 3B, 1B, 2B, SP#1 and SP#2/SP#3. Machado, Bundy and Schoop are not helping this team. Most of our premium guys are young as well. A good team would have fewer holes and could use those premium prospects to fix 2-3 oles in a manner that helped this club for more than one season.

Example:

Machado is traded for Upton.

Schoop, Matusz, Avery and 2013 supplemental pick are traded for Headley and Richard.

Bundy+ is traded for Johnson and Morrison.

The Orioles didn't fill every need, but they got an All Star caiber LF and #1/#2 SP in addition to an above average 3B. That team is better equiped to compete in 2012 and a big free agent signing or two in 2013 could set them up for a nice run.

Markakis

Headley

Jones

Upton

Hardy

Thome/Betemit

Weiters

Davis/Reynolds

2B

Johnson

Hammel

Chen

Richard

Britton/Tillman

Davis/Reynolds

Thome/Betemit

Andino/2B

Teagarden

Chavez

Strop

Johnson

Ayala

Patton

Arrieta

Gregg

O'Day

Again, not saying to deal Machado or Bundy because I like those guys, but tons of top prospects have faltered. With that said, if I thought that I could make the Orioles better over the long term and someone loved those guys enough to pay, I would give them up.

I would agree that you keep your options open and while DD says we are not trading Machado or Bundy in reality that is just him saying we are not trading Machado or Bundy unless you overwhelm us with a an offer we cant refuse. I do not think the Orioles are holding Machado and Bundy just for fun, I think they are holding em because its unlikely they will get a return that will surpass what they expect out those two guys.

Yes prospects falter all the time and in many cases fade away. MLB is full of guys who are great players much like the ones your proposing trading for and they were also once prospects. Headley, Johnson, Richard are all guys who were highly regarded and worked out. Young players who can fill roles such as Machado and Bundy free up resources to address other areas its not a zero sum thing. If you trade Bundy for say Johnson your losing what Bundy could give you AND your losing about 12+ million in resources that can be spent elsewhere. Just my take on it.

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Ok, let's try this... you need superstar prospects to become superstar players to win championships.

It helps, sure. But how many of the Rangers position players are homegrown superstars right now? Kinsler? My point is only that functional parts at controlled costs are fine, even if you need more.

A few years of Andrus-like performance before a break-out would be equally fine.

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If we were to put a price on Machados value, what would it be.

For example: If we were to trade Manny to someone else straight up for another player who would that be? How much is he worth?

In a straight up trade ignoring the age of the player we get in return, he is worth about an Ian Kinsler. You better believe I would make that trade.

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In a straight up trade ignoring the age of the player we get in return, he is worth about an Ian Kinsler. You better believe I would make that trade.

Thank the Lord you aren't our GM. I mean Kinsler is good for sure, but Manny is going to be playing ss, and going to be good at it. We would have to not value him much at all to make that trade.

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