Decisions, decisions....

[Orioles10Fan]

Melvin out managed Buck tonight.

Melvin didn't out manage buck, Jim Johnson gave up 6 runs in the top of the ninth inning when we were up one. Buck didn't throw a single pitch that inning. Just a thought

[Il BuonO]

I'm not asking for his firing.

Funny. Sure did sound like you were. Buck has taken a team that was picked universally to finish last in the AL East. July 27, 2012, they are in 2nd place, 4 games over .500. Playing the toughest schedule in the league, or at least in the top 2 or 3 all year (depending on when you look at their schedule), having lost their best starting pitcher, having sent 3/5 of their opening day starting staff to the minors, and YET he has his team where they are. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm thinking another manager would do no better, and could do much worse. Quite frankly, we are lucky to have him in the depths of where this franchise was when he took over. I respect your opinion. But it's fairly reactionary.

Go back and read the thread. Nowhere do I state he should be fired. In fact, I state at the end if he reaches the PO he should be given more time. Your response what's reactionary.

[mark_beckens]

State one thing in the OP that was hyperbole.

Show where I said you did!

[Skeletor]

Melvin didn't out manage buck, Jim Johnson gave up 6 runs in the top of the ninth inning when we were up one. Buck didn't throw a single pitch that inning. Just a thought

Did you happen to watch the rest of the game?

Melvin most certainly outmanaged Buck. It was in spite of Buck that JJ had a one run lead to blow.

[jtm]

Go back and read the thread. Nowhere do I state he should be fired. In fact, I state at the end if he reaches the PO he should be given more time. Your response what's reactionary.

I read your post. You can say as much as you want "I am not trying to say,... but what I am saying is..." as many times as you want. Your post clearly implied an opinion that Buck is the problem and maybe he should go. Don't shy away from it, own it. I just very much disagree with it. Sorry that you take disagreement so poorly. I'm still failing to see how this team is better off without with Buck. You have offered no proof whatsoever.

[El Gordo]

State one thing in the OP that was hyperbole.

The idea that if the manager doesn't get a 69 W team to the playoffs the following year, the owner should consider firing him. I'd say that is hyperbolic if not just moronic,.

[Orioles10Fan]

Did you happen to watch the rest of the game?

Melvin most certainly outmanaged Buck. It was in spite of Buck that JJ had a one run lead to blow.

Yes I watched the entire game and yes buck should have pulled soco after the first walk and should have pinch hit for betimeit with the bases loaded and him hitting right handed but the fact is JJ came in with a lead in the 9th inning (what he gets paid to do, win games in save situations) and didnt make it happen. The game shouldn't have been that close but that's like saying "well if britton didn't give up 4 runs in the first we would have been up by 5 in the ninth instead of 1" we were winning, brought in our closer, and he didn't get the job done

[Il BuonO]

hyperbole? Didn't you start this thread?

This was you right? You used the word hyperbole then right after you connect the very next thought to one saying I started the thread. You still haven't given an example though.

[mark_beckens]

This was you right? You used the word hyperbole then right after you connect the very next thought to one saying I started the thread. You still haven't given an example though.

Do you see the ?? You know what that is, right? They are 2 seperate questions, correct?

[Il BuonO]

The idea that if the manager doesn't get a 69 W team to the playoffs the following year, the owner should consider firing him. I'd say that is hyperbolic if not just moronic,.

Because managers aren't held to standards. Thats moronic. Again, no hyperbole there. Just wondering out loud. Apparently it's touched a nerve.

[24fps]

You're joking, right? I hated Buck's decision to let Betemit bat right-handed with the bases loaded, but every manager makes bad decisions at times. Buck has done a great job this year overall, he ought to be a manager of the year candidate IMO.

I agree. Buck had a hugely bad game tonight. Is there a managerial equivalent of the "Golden Sombrero"? Let's hope he got it out of his system.

[allquixotic]

Since we don't keep statistics that directly show the impact of a manager's decisions, I frankly don't think they make a very big difference. Sure, they're a morale leader blah blah blah... but the game is mostly about the abilities of the players. Anyone with half a brain who can make logical deductions can be a perfectly suitable manager. I mean, can anyone seriously tell me what Buck's WAR is? Personally I think it's exactly 0.

It's no different than the president of the country. Most of what actually happens (and by most, I mean 99.9%) is either decided by other people or executed by other people, or both. They're just a figurehead, because humans have this unusual desire to designate some kind of leader whenever there is a structured organization. So Buck is our leader to the same extent that the Queen of England is the leader of England.

Now, the pitching coach, the hitting coach and the base coaches -- THEY matter. They have a "WAR" (even if it's not easy to quantify). They adjust players' technique. A good pitching coach can help a struggling pitcher change their windup or their release point or their pitch sequence to remain competitive.

I think anyone who seriously feels that Buck has a significant positive or negative impact on the performance of the club should be paying much closer attention to the likes of Rick Adair and Rick Peterson. The game is in their hands almost as much as it is in the pitchers' hands.

[murph]

I didn't see the game (other than the Jones HR, caught that at dinner) only the box score, but as far as Buck managing issues, what about his not believing in the save rule? Did Johnson have to come in? Was Patton effective enough that he should have stayed in for the 9th?

I am very much pro-Buck, think his two second half winning seasons with little talent says something, think that this year's record says a lot more, but I for one have never liked that the better pitcher (if that is the case) at that moment always seems has to come out for the "closer" in the 9th. Just wondering if anyone feels someone else should have pitched the 9th....

[CA-ORIOLE]

Batting JJ Hardy second all year is enough for me to question his competence at some level ...... and I'm actually ok with Buck.

[Frobby]

Since we don't keep statistics that directly show the impact of a manager's decisions, I frankly don't think they make a very big difference. Sure, they're a morale leader blah blah blah... but the game is mostly about the abilities of the players. Anyone with half a brain who can make logical deductions can be a perfectly suitable manager. I mean, can anyone seriously tell me what Buck's WAR is? Personally I think it's exactly 0.

It's no different than the president of the country. Most of what actually happens (and by most, I mean 99.9%) is either decided by other people or executed by other people, or both. They're just a figurehead, because humans have this unusual desire to designate some kind of leader whenever there is a structured organization. So Buck is our leader to the same extent that the Queen of England is the leader of England.

Now, the pitching coach, the hitting coach and the base coaches -- THEY matter. They have a "WAR" (even if it's not easy to quantify). They adjust players' technique. A good pitching coach can help a struggling pitcher change their windup or their release point or their pitch sequence to remain competitive.

I think anyone who seriously feels that Buck has a significant positive or negative impact on the performance of the club should be paying much closer attention to the likes of Rick Adair and Rick Peterson. The game is in their hands almost as much as it is in the pitchers' hands.

I disagree strongly with this statement. I think a manager can have a sigificant impact on a team. But, a lot of that impact doesn't relate to in-game decisions of the type we are discussing here.

Buck has built a team that doesn't give in to adversity. That doesn't mean they are going to finish this year with a winning record. But, they won't give up on themselves. They've shown it over and over in the last 300+ games while Buck has been the manager. And it isn't a coincidence.