The Cavalry's Value (per Roch)

[Va Beach O's fan]

I'd trade them Arrieta and Matusz + Reynolds in a heartbeat. Headley is raking on a bad team, surrounded by bums in a pitchers park. I expect very little from either of those pitchers in our future because of what I have seen with my own two eyes.

They are doing the exact same things at AAA right now that they were doing in the majors, one good start, one bad start, one good, one bad etc.

And that is at the AAA level in a pitchers park in Norfolk. I have no confidence that the two of them will ever have any sort of major impact at the major league level in their entire careers.

How much evidence do we need before we can finally label them both busts. I'd have shipped them off for a big time 3b with solid defense and underrated, value hitter like Headley in a heartbeat. Duquette missed a big opportunity on this one. Two career minor leaguers (thats what they are in my opinion) for a 3-5 war 3b with 2 years left on a team that is in DIRE need of someone who can play 3b?

How do you NOT make that trade?

[Tx Oriole]

You wouldn't have done that deal?

Not both for Headley.

[Moose Milligan]

If the Orioles still think Matusz and Arrieta have value, they're fooling themselves. IMO, they want to hold onto them because they've spent so much time, effort and money on them that they want to get SOMETHING out of them.

Well, you're not gonna squeeze blood from a rock. I'd much rather have them be someone else's problem, I'm tired of their issues and I'm tired of their poor performance. If dealing both of them could get us a solid third baseman who could put up a .800 OPS and play good defense and hasn't hit 30 yet, that'd be a great deal.

Again, let these two be someone else's problem. I hope we move on from these two this offseason and look for other rotation members...and if these two somehow iron it out, great. Our future plans shouldn't include them.

[DrungoHazewood]

If the Orioles still think Matusz and Arrieta have value, they're fooling themselves. IMO, they want to hold onto them because they've spent so much time, effort and money on them that they want to get SOMETHING out of them.

Well, you're not gonna squeeze blood from a rock. I'd much rather have them be someone else's problem, I'm tired of their issues and I'm tired of their poor performance. If dealing both of them could get us a solid third baseman who could put up a .800 OPS and play good defense and hasn't hit 30 yet, that'd be a great deal.

Again, let these two be someone else's problem. I hope we move on from these two this offseason and look for other rotation members...and if these two somehow iron it out, great. Our future plans shouldn't include them.

If you KNOW they're not going to be anything, that you're not going to "squeeze blood from a rock", then why doesn't everyone else know that, too? Aren't you really advocating for giving them away? Either that or you're saying that both the Padres' and the Orioles' front offices don't have the sense God gave a fencepost.

[Moose Milligan]

If you KNOW they're not going to be anything, that you're not going to "squeeze blood from a rock", then why doesn't everyone else know that, too? Aren't you really advocating for giving them away? Either that or you're saying that both the Padres' and the Orioles' front offices don't have the sense God gave a fencepost.

Trading both for Headley wouldn't be "giving them away." We'd be getting something of value in return and offloading our problem children to another franchise.

Drungo, as it stands right now, would you bank on Matusz or Arrieta becoming a positive contributor to the Orioles anytime soon?

[DrungoHazewood]

Trading both for Headley wouldn't be "giving them away." We'd be getting something of value in return and offloading our problem children to another franchise.

Drungo, as it stands right now, would you bank on Matusz or Arrieta becoming a positive contributor to the Orioles anytime soon?

Matusz, probably not. Arrieta, yes.

[Moose Milligan]

Matusz, probably not. Arrieta, yes.

Arrieta as a bullpen member? Or as a member of the rotation?

And if you don't think Matusz could contribute, wouldn't you be more inclined to package them both to SD? I bet SD thinks that if Matusz comes home and pitches in a pitchers park, he could be okay. Again, not our problem to figure out.

[weams]

Headley is seriously undervalued on this site. And the chances of Matusz and Arrieta both being solid MLB pitchers in Baltimore is remote ...but improves some in Petco.

Similar batters through age 27

1.Scott Cooper (958) 2.Joe Marty (956) 3.Franklin Gutierrez (955) 4.Milton Bradley (953) 5.Enos Cabell (953) 6.Al Woods (951) 7.Steve Braun (951) 8.Kevin Bass (950) 9.Johnny Grubb (950) 10.Charlie Duffee (947)

Most similar by age

25.Greg Briley (981)26.Lastings Milledge (975) 27.Scott Cooper (958

[weams]

1.Bud Norris (990) 2.Dustin McGowan (988) 3.Geremi Gonzalez (983) 4.Rob Tejeda (981) 5.Cliff Lee (981) 6.Micah Owings (981) 7.Boof Bonser (980) 8.Dave Sisler (978) 9.Russ Kemmerer (978) 10.Jason Davis (977) 

Jake Arrieta

Pitchers most similar through 25

Brian Matusz

1.Arthur Rhodes (985) 2.Andrew Miller (983) 3.Jeff Francis (978) 4.Brian Anderson (974) 5.Brian Rose (972) 6.Johnny Babich (972) 7.Don Schulze (971) 8.Jim Parque (971) 9.Matt Harrison (970) 10.Glendon Rusch (970) 

[DrungoHazewood]

Similar batters through age 27

1.Scott Cooper (958) 2.Joe Marty (956) 3.Franklin Gutierrez (955) 4.Milton Bradley (953) 5.Enos Cabell (953) 6.Al Woods (951) 7.Steve Braun (951) 8.Kevin Bass (950) 9.Johnny Grubb (950) 10.Charlie Duffee (947)

Most similar by age

25.Greg Briley (981)26.Lastings Milledge (975) 27.Scott Cooper (958

bb-ref comps don't park adjust, so they break down when comparing players with extreme park effects like Headley. Headley's career OPS+ is 110, Cooper's is 91. That's basically like saying Nick Markakis is the same as Chris Davis.

[srock]

You wouldn't have done that deal?

I wouldn't.

Chase Headley isn't that great! He's good, but two young inexpensive starting pitchers with significant upside are the better long term choice. Trading them for a good 3B now is the definition of sacrificing the long term for a short term gain.

[srock]

Headley is seriously undervalued on this site. And the chances of Matusz and Arrieta both being solid MLB pitchers in Baltimore is remote ...but improves some in Petco.

Headley is seriously overvalued by everyone right now because he was one the only decent player available at the deadline and he is crushing it at this moment.

Matusz and Arrieta are entering there prime years. Chances are pretty good at least one of two talented players will have some good years at their upcoming ages.

[Lucky Jim]

Headley is seriously overvalued by everyone right now because he was one the only decent player available at the deadline and he is crushing it at this moment.

This is patently inaccurate.

[Babypowder]

I wouldn't.

Chase Headley isn't that great! He's good, but two young inexpensive starting pitchers with significant upside are the better long term choice. Trading them for a good 3B now is the definition of sacrificing the long term for a short term gain.

I see Arrieta as a bullpen arm and I have very little hope of Matusz becoming much of anything. I think I would have done it, but I also think Chase Headley is a pretty damn good player.

[srock]

This is patently inaccurate.

Where there any other decent bats available at the deadline? At least in the CI department?