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Gammons on parity


sonny

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What has always been interesting to me is why the players oppose a systm like that.

I really don't see how their salaries will be effected. I mean, it is only NY who really goes over that threshold, so its not like salaries around the league will really go down and if you make teams spend money and not sit on 15-30 million dollar payrolls, that means more money will be given out, not less.

Players do complain and talk about the unfair advantage of NY as well, so it really just surprises me that they oppose a cap so much.

Well I don't think the idea of a salary floor has been seriously considered. So they haven't had that notion to counter the idea of a salary cap. But I don't think they'd go for your numbers, too low of a cap(unless it's at the high end of the range) and too low of a floor. A cap at the 110-115 range would also affect the Red Sox and Mets and probably another team or two in the next few years.

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Well I don't think the idea of a salary floor has been seriously considered. So they haven't had that notion to counter the idea of a salary cap. But I don't think they'd go for your numbers, too low of a cap(unless it's at the high end of the range) and too low of a floor. A cap at the 110-115 range would also affect the Red Sox and Mets and probably another team or two in the next few years.

Well that's fine...If it took yoru numbers, that would be fine with me as well. 65 million may be too high though but i am sure it can be worked out somehow.

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The Yankees have a huge payroll, we play in their division. It sucks. It's our lot. But stop using it as a crutch.

No crutch needed, the best thing we could do for parity is to put another team in New York. If Selig cared about parity, he would insist on it.

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Well that's fine...If it took yoru numbers, that would be fine with me as well. 65 million may be too high though but i am sure it can be worked out somehow.

Well I would increase revenue sharing as well, so that's how everyone would be able to spend an average of 65M. 18 teams currently have at least a 65M payroll, 7 more are within 9M of that total. Baseball is bringing in more revenue then ever. I think even without increased revenue sharing, almost every team could break even with a 65M payroll, so I don't think it should be a problem. Plus, we all know that fans of team like the Royals, DRays, Marlins, and Pirates would support their team more if the teams spend more and did better on the field. Although, the Marlins fans are poor, but a new stadium should help.

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Well I would increase revenue sharing as well, so that's how everyone would be able to spend an average of 65M. 18 teams currently have at least a 65M payroll, 7 more are within 9M of that total. Baseball is bringing in more revenue then ever. I think even without increased revenue sharing, almost every team could break even with a 65M payroll, so I don't think it should be a problem. Plus, we all know that fans of team like the Royals, DRays, Marlins, and Pirates would support their team more if the teams spend more and did better on the field. Although, the Marlins fans are poor, but a new stadium should help.

This sounds like a good idea and it would really surprise me if teams and players would really oppose this, at least in general. I am sure the Yanks would oppose it and a few teams here and there.

BTW and maybe this is too harsh but if a team can't support a 65 million dollar payroll under your plan, they need to move to somewhere where they can or they need to be contracted.

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This sounds like a good idea and it would really surprise me if teams and players would really oppose this, at least in general. I am sure the Yanks would oppose it and a few teams here and there.

BTW and maybe this is too harsh but if a team can't support a 65 million dollar payroll under your plan, they need to move to somewhere where they can or they need to be contracted.

Yeah, I agree with that last part. Every team in the league should be able to support at least a 65M payroll with increased revenue sharing.

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I'd rather have a system where all teams have the equal opportunity to compete than one where one payrolls vary from $14m up to $200m.

The NFL system is designed to give teams a chance to get better in a hurry but I don't think it's designed so every team can finish 8-8. If that is the goal it's a failed system. Just thinking of the AFC, the Colts have lost 6 games since 2004 and the Steelers and Patriots probably no more than 8 or 9 games.

In MLB, why do well run organizations have to trade or allow players they drafted and groomed walk because they can't offer salaries equal to that of teams with 200-500% more revenues?

Does that make MLB fun, but a huge scam?

The NFL system is designed so as many teams as possible have a shot at making the playoffs late in the season so that they can make oodles and oodles of cash. Everything is completely manufactured. It's a system that rewards ineptitude and punishes success- all to maximize consumer spending and minimize expenses.

It is a fantastic business model. A cash cow that manipulates both fans and players into thinking they are getting the best product possible. Heck, the ultimate irony is that America's biggest passion is basically runs on a communist/totalitarian. George Orwell could hardly have thought of a better system himself: media propaganda (NFL Fims, NFL Network), tightly-controlled economic structure, vanquishing of personality and individual identity (celebration, taunting, uniform fines), masses of people huddled around a television screen to watch an hour of action and 2 hours of commercials.

I mean, I'm one of these people, and since it's just football it is no big deal, but the system is basically one giant manipulation.

As for the rest of your point, you are using the two biggest extremes and setting it as a general rule. Of this year's playoff teams, 3 of 8 teams were in the bottom half of payroll. Only 3 of the top 10 payrolls made the playoffs. The Cardinals and Detroit spent in the 80 millions- a very reachable expenditure for almost every team.

I'm not against a salary cap, but I am against one as stringent as the NFL's. If you tighten the screws too much, with the amount of games played, you'll see that more and more divisions will begin to look like the NL West. Just a bunch of mediocre, crappy teams.

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The NFL system is designed so as many teams as possible have a shot at making the playoffs late in the season so that they can make oodles and oodles of cash. Everything is completely manufactured. It's a system that rewards ineptitude and punishes success- all to maximize consumer spending and minimize expenses.

It is a fantastic business model. A cash cow that manipulates both fans and players into thinking they are getting the best product possible. Heck, the ultimate irony is that America's biggest passion is basically runs on a communist/totalitarian. George Orwell could hardly have thought of a better system himself: media propaganda (NFL Fims, NFL Network), tightly-controlled economic structure, vanquishing of personality and individual identity (celebration, taunting, uniform fines), masses of people huddled around a television screen to watch an hour of action and 2 hours of commercials.

I mean, I'm one of these people, and since it's just football it is no big deal, but the system is basically one giant manipulation.

As for the rest of your point, you are using the two biggest extremes and setting it as a general rule. Of this year's playoff teams, 3 of 8 teams were in the bottom half of payroll. Only 3 of the top 10 payrolls made the playoffs. The Cardinals and Detroit spent in the 80 millions- a very reachable expenditure for almost every team.

I'm not against a salary cap, but I am against one as stringent as the NFL's. If you tighten the screws too much, with the amount of games played, you'll see that more and more divisions will begin to look like the NL West. Just a bunch of mediocre, crappy teams.

I agree that the NFL system is far from perfect. I'm a Colt fan and it bothered me that my team had to choose between RWayne and EJames. It bothered me that the defense had to take a hit by not resigning David Thorton and the loss shows big time in the defense. However it's a system that effects every team equally so you have to deal. Although I much prefer that to a system where the Colts didn't have the revenues to resign their players and the Cowboys were outbidding everybody for the stars by having a $200m payroll.

While I like the idea of a salary cap/floor for MLB I don't even think it's necessary. What they need to do is implement real revenue sharing. If Yes! network generates $1m of revenue per game, why shouldn't KC get a piece of the action when an Royals/Yankees game is broadcast. The Yankees would still have a revenues advantage. I don't even care if the Yankees outspend everyone if it was more like 10% more than everyone else and 25% more than league average. I don't think it's good for the sport when they are spending 50% more than everyone else, 300% more than the average team, and more than 1200% the lowest payroll.

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My question-when will the Orioles benifit from this so called parity?

When Angelos stops meddling, when the GM's start making smart moves, when the team plays better defense, when the coaches hold players accountable for mistakes, and when the hitting and pitching gets better.

Those looking outside of this organization to blame someone for the O's woes are only folling themselves.

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When Angelos stops meddling, when the GM's start making smart moves, when the team plays better defense, when the coaches hold players accountable for mistakes, and when the hitting and pitching gets better.

Those looking outside of this organization to blame someone for the O's woes are only folling themselves.

The O's only have themselves to blame for their lack of success. However, that doesn't mean that the system MLB has isn't screwed up.

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Only 2 of 16 games are based off of the last season's records in the NFL. For example the Ravens play 6 division games this year, 4 against AFC West, 4 against NFC South, that is the same for Steelers, Browns and Bengals. The Ravens play this year Tennesee and Buffalo while for example Cincinnati plays New England and Indy. Pittsburgh plays Miami and Jacksonville and Cleveland plays NY Jets and Houston. That is a difference but not as big as some make it out to be.

2 out of 16 games is 1/8th of the season. Over a 162 game season, that would work out to 20 games. So the baseball equivalent would be a team like the Yankees playing the White sox and the Angels 10 games apiece in 2006 while the Devil Rays played those games against the Royals and the Mariners (or whoever finished last in the west in 2005).

Are you saying that's not that big a difference? I'm not advocating this type of schedule but I just wanted to point that out.

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When people say that there isn't parity in baseball they aren't implying that there is no chance to win. There obviously is, but let's not be so naive as to say that you just have to be a well run organization.

If you are a mid market or small market team, you have to be a well run organization. If you are a large market team, you just have to not be completely mismanaged.

I would agree with those who say that the A's, Twins, etc are well run organizations who have made smart decisions for the most part over the past few years. Does anyone want to say that they Yankees are a well run baseball organization over the past 10 years? They can bring in Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, Hideki Irabu etc and recover because they have a much larger margin of error. Could the Twins or A's have gotten away with those acquisitions?

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The NFL's system is ridiculous.

I love the NFL/Ravens because of the event status it has, but it's complete BS. Everything is designed so that every team finishes 8-8. It's mediocre, flawed football teams and the non-controllable factors like injuries, scheduling, officiating play WAY too big a role.

Why do well run organizations have to cut or release players they drafted and groomed because of a salary cap while poorly run ones reap the benefits of "parity" in the draft and free agency and get to be competitive simply because of the system?

The NFL is fun, but it's a huge scam.

The Yankees have a huge payroll, we play in their division. It sucks. It's our lot. But stop using it as a crutch.

Going into this off-season, the Twins, Tigers, White Sox and Indians can all put themselves in the position to win their division. The same can be said of the Angels, A's, Mariners and Rangers. The Red Sox can always challenge for the division and the BlueJays could make a serious WildCard run. The Braves, Phillies and Marlins could all be WildCard contenders and could challenge the Mets for the title. The Cardinals and Astros should be nervously looking over their shoulders at the Reds and Brewers and Cubs. And the NL West is always up for grabs.

By my count, the only fanbases who legitimately have no realistic hope is Baltimore, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Washington and Pittsburgh. Everyone else could make the playoffs.

I guess the Yankees have just been drafting and grooming their players better than anyone else over the last decade? Actually that's not completely fair because they did bring up Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Williams etc in the 90s, but they haven't been drafting and grooming anyone recently, unless you want to count Cano, Wang and Cabrera, who were amateur free agent signings not subject to the draft. I have a feeling that the Yankees will draft Matsuzaka, Zito and/or Scmidt this offseason.

I guess the Red Sox drafted and groomed Pedro, Schilling, Manny Ramirez and Damon?

I guess the Mets drafted and groomed Beltran, Glavine, Pedro, and Delgado?

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This isn't hockey, this isn't the NBA or the NFL where a good chunk of the entire league gets into the playoffs.

I realize that there are a lot of teams in MLB that make the playoffs year in, year out but the same goes for the NFL. The Colts, Broncos and Steelers are in the playoffs damn near every year. The Eagles were in it for a few years in a row and appear to be headed back after an off year.

To think that playoff participants are going to be different every year is an extreme case of being naive.

Look at the last World Series matchups...

Chicago Sox vs Houston

Boston Sox vs STL

Florida vs Yankees

Angels vs Giants

Arizona vs Yankees

Only repeat appearance was by the Yankees.

A lot to read in this thread, and I'm getting tired...there are a lot of smart posters on this board so I'm sure someone has mentioned it...but look at all the great races for the pennant and the WC that happen every year. THATS parity.

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When people say that there isn't parity in baseball they aren't implying that there is no chance to win. There obviously is, but let's not be so naive as to say that you just have to be a well run organization.

If you are a mid market or small market team, you have to be a well run organization. If you are a large market team, you just have to not be completely mismanaged.

I would agree with those who say that the A's, Twins, etc are well run organizations who have made smart decisions for the most part over the past few years. Does anyone want to say that they Yankees are a well run baseball organization over the past 10 years? They can bring in Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, Hideki Irabu etc and recover because they have a much larger margin of error. Could the Twins or A's have gotten away with those acquisitions?

So? Why is this a bad thing?

Nobody is arguing there isn't an advantage. The point is it is an advantage that can be overcome and, honestly, it can be overcome pretty easily. It just requires competence.

The NFL salary cap just allows crappy management to not have to work that hard and still have people come to their games.

The Marlins certainly groomed Beckett, Willis, Cabrera et al. The Tigers groomed most of their players.

For every example you throw out about someone "buying a championship," there is an example of a well run organization succeeding through their farm system and shrewd maneuvering.

That's what makes baseball interesting. Different teams use different styles, philosophies and advantages to improve themselves. Some have it easier, some don't. The bottomline is that several playoff spots are up for grabs until well late in the season. The Yankees, Red Sox, BlueJays, Twins, Tigers, WhiteSox, Angels, A's, Mets, Phillies, Marlins, Cardinals, Astros, Reds, Padres, Giants, Dodgers all had a realistic shot at making the playoffs come August. That's over half the teams.

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