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Who is your Orioles MVP this year?


Moose Milligan

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That isn't the point I was making. How can JJ be the MVP when Strop could give you close to the same performance if he was in the same role?

Johnson to me has been a fine bullpen arm this season but so have a number of other guys, he shouldn't be the MVP solely based on the roles assigned by Buck.

If you eliminate saves from the equation what is there about JJ's numbers that elevate him from the rest of the bullpen?

Kinda answer your own question there, Chief ;)

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Kinda answer your own question there, Chief ;)

No!

He should be the MVP because Buck blindly adheres to the "closer" mentality?

How many saves did the O's blow when JJ was sick?

You come off like those guys knocking Trout's RBI numbers when he is batting leadoff!

Saves are as important a statistic as pitching wins and RBI, that is to say not important at all.

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Chen - Replace him, with the typical #2 pitcher the Orioles have had over the years and we'd be 8 games out by now.

Jones is a close second, mostly because he's been so clutch. But I'd probably take my chances with Jones out of the lineup before I took Chen out of the rotation.

EDIT: I'll add that in almost 75% of his starts (19 of 26), Chen allows 3 runs or less.

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That isn't the point I was making. How can JJ be the MVP when Strop could give you close to the same performance if he was in the same role?

Johnson to me has been a fine bullpen arm this season but so have a number of other guys, he shouldn't be the MVP solely based on the roles assigned by Buck.

If you eliminate saves from the equation what is there about JJ's numbers that elevate him from the rest of the bullpen?

Saves are as important a statistic as pitching wins and RBI, that is to say not important at all.

That makes as much sense as saying we shouldn't give Chen any credit for wins because he was given the starter's role by Buck, and he would have been equally valuable as a long man in the bullpen.
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No!

He should be the MVP because Buck blindly adheres to the "closer" mentality?

How many saves did the O's blow when JJ was sick?

You come off like those guys knocking Trout's RBI numbers when he is batting leadoff!

Saves are as important a statistic as pitching wins and RBI, that is to say not important at all.

Yeah, not that WAR is totally accurate, but bb-ref has Strop leading the team at 3.0 and Johnson 10th at 1.5.

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No!

He should be the MVP because Buck blindly adheres to the "closer" mentality?

How many saves did the O's blow when JJ was sick?

You come off like those guys knocking Trout's RBI numbers when he is batting leadoff!

Saves are as important a statistic as pitching wins and RBI, that is to say not important at all.

I agree with your notion that saves are important as pitching wins and RBI...but there's a reason why closers exist*.

But if you're knocking saves in general, how are you arguing for Strop to be an O's MVP candidate when you're arguing for what he could do with JJ's role? If you're putting down saves and closers you probably shouldn't be arguing for what another bullpen member could be doing if given the closer role.

*waiting for a post from Drungo about archaic baseball philosophies and how saves aren't important.

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That makes as much sense as saying we shouldn't give Chen any credit for wins because he was given the starter's role by Buck, and he would have been equally valuable as a long man in the bullpen.

I know you and Moose are not dense, so try and work with me here.

Pitcher A and B has equivalent pitching lines.

Pitcher A comes into the game in occasional high leverage situations and, by default, pitches the 8th inning.

Pitcher B comes into the game, in the 9th inning, regardless of whom is batting for the other team, and almost always comes into a clean inning.

You are telling me you think pitcher B is more valuable?

Based on what?

Saves are a garbage stat.

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So you don't think that Strop could do pretty much what JJ has done this season? Because he has, just in the 8th not the 9th.

Strop has been almost as valuable as JJ. I give JJ the slight edge because he has only given up a lead or allowed a tie game to be broken three times all year, while Strop has given up a lead or allowed a tie to be broken seven times. Happily, the O's won two of the games where JJ gave up a lead, and they won 5 games that Strop either gave up a lead or allowed a tie to be broken (inlcuding last night's game).

JJ has a WPA (win probability added) of 4.1 and a WPA/LI (win probability added divided by leverage index) of 1.7 Strop has a WPA of 2.1 and a WPA/LI of 1.3. Those statistics suggest that JJ has been more valuable than Strop. But there is no doubt that Strop has been very, very valuable.

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I agree with your notion that saves are important as pitching wins and RBI...but there's a reason why closers exist*.

But if you're knocking saves in general, how are you arguing for Strop to be an O's MVP candidate when you're arguing for what he could do with JJ's role? If you're putting down saves and closers you probably shouldn't be arguing for what another bullpen member could be doing if given the closer role.

*waiting for a post from Drungo about archaic baseball philosophies and how saves aren't important.

I'm not. I wouldn't give an MVP award to a relief pitcher unless there were some very extreme circumstances. I was stating that JJ doesn't have a better case then Strop.

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I know you and Moose are not dense, so try and work with me here.

Pitcher A and B has equivalent pitching lines.

Pitcher A comes into the game in occasional high leverage situations and, by default, pitches the 8th inning.

Pitcher B comes into the game, in the 9th inning, regardless of whom is batting for the other team, and almost always comes into a clean inning.

You are telling me you think pitcher B is more valuable?

Based on what?

Saves are a garbage stat.

If pitcher B doesn't do his job, it's more likely that the team loses than if pitcher A fails at his.
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Dan Duquette...

I had less than zero faith in him before the season and now I'm drinking the Kool-Aid.

His scrap heap pick ups and what I laughed at as "depth" signings have helped create this miracle season.

I was wrong and I'm ecstatic about it.

So he's my MVP.

Me too. Nice job Dano.

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