Who is your Orioles MVP this year?

[Frobby]

I'm not. I wouldn't give an MVP award to a relief pitcher unless there were some very extreme circumstances. I was stating that JJ doesn't have a better case then Strop.

Well, he does have a better case than Strop, for the reasons I gave in post # 27 above. He has done a better job of protecting leads and keeping tied games tied.

I do think there is a good argument to be made for Jones or Chen.

[The Rick]

Wei-Yin Chen.

[Can_of_corn]

If pitcher B doesn't do his job, it's more likely that the team loses than if pitcher A fails at his.

True, but that is an actual determining factor for you? I will also say that is a matter of usage not ability.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

How can anyone say JJ? It's great that he leads the league in saves, but lets not forget that it's the rest of the team who affords him those opportunities by taking the lead in close games. I agree he's playing at an elite level, and it's nice being confident we're not going to blow a 1 run lead 95% of the time, but still... It's gotta be a starter or an everyday player imop.

[baltfan]

I know you and Moose are not dense, so try and work with me here.

Pitcher A and B has equivalent pitching lines.

Pitcher A comes into the game in occasional high leverage situations and, by default, pitches the 8th inning.

Pitcher B comes into the game, in the 9th inning, regardless of whom is batting for the other team, and almost always comes into a clean inning.

You are telling me you think pitcher B is more valuable?

Based on what?

Saves are a garbage stat.

Only problem with this argument is that it has been repeatedly proven that certain people just can't handle closing. Arthur Rhodes couldn't. Robertson apparently couldn't. You have to give some extra credit for being able to handle the ninth. Should it be as much extra credit as the general public gives, No. But you do have to give extra credit.

Also,

WPA: Relievers

Jim Johnson 4.23

Vinnie Pestano 3.47

Aroldis Chapman 3.13

Fernando Rodney 3.06

Steve Cishek 2.76

Strop 2.20

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=n&type=3&season=2012

[OFFNY]

.

I like to think of Strop vs. Jimmy Johnson in our bullpen as a "friendly rivalry," somewhat similar to Adam Jones and Nick Markakis having a "friendly rivalry" in our outfield.

All 4 have been solid contributors top the team in 2012, and Adam and Nick have been so since 2008 and 2006, respectively.

[baltfan]

How can anyone say JJ? It's great that he leads the league in saves, but lets not forget that it's the rest of the team who affords him those opportunities by taking the lead in close games. I agree he's playing at an elite level, and it's nice being confident we're not going to blow a 1 run lead 95% of the time, but still... It's gotta be a starter or an everyday player imop.

I think most that say JJ are acknowledging the bullpen has been the key and they are just taking the most key part of the bullpen. No different than a last year saying Halladay was more valuable than Lee.

[glenn__davis]

So you don't think that Strop could do pretty much what JJ has done this season? Because he has, just in the 8th not the 9th.

2 points...

1. I'm not convinced Strop could be as good in the 9th. Maybe he could be, maybe not. Much as people don't like to admit it, not everyone can handle the closer role.

2. For relievers, I'm very big on WHIP. Johnson has a WHIP of 0.988. Strop's is 1.110. Johnson's is also very adversely impacted by two very bad outings - take those away and his WHIP is 0.815. And I don't know how many of those have been infield hits, but it sure seems like a lot of them to me. I know you can't really take away the bad outings, they count just like the rest, but the bottom line is he's been an absolute shut-down closer who rarely even gives the other team a chance to come back.

Also, I've watched Strop - he's very good, but he's given up some loud, loud outs in big situations this year. I think he's good, but I also think he's gotten a little lucky. I do think he probably could take over the closer's role if we wanted to trade Johnson, but I'm sure glad we have Johnson.

[Prayin4Reign]

I think Johnson is a reasonable choice, but Adam Jones really carried us for a huge part of the season and I think his confidence and attitude carried over in the clubhouse. My vote's for Adam.

[Frobby]

Only problem with this argument is that it has been repeatedly proven that certain people just can't handle closing. Arthur Rhodes couldn't. Robertson apparently couldn't. You have to give some extra credit for being able to handle the ninth. Should it be as much extra credit as the general public gives, No. But you do have to give extra credit.

Also,

WPA: Relievers

Jim Johnson 4.23

Vinnie Pestano 3.47

Aroldis Chapman 3.13

Fernando Rodney 3.06

Steve Cishek 2.76

Strop 2.20

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=n&type=3&season=2012

But you can't compare JJ and Strop just on WPA, because JJ pitches in higher leverage situations so he will almosts always do better than Strop. WPA/LI is better because it adjusts for that. JJ still wins, as he has the second best WPA/LI of any reliever in MLB (Chapman is first), and Strop is a bit down the list.

[Moose Milligan]

I can see the argument for Jones, but he'd really have to have a monster September to make me vote for him.

[Can_of_corn]

Only problem with this argument is that it has been repeatedly proven that certain people just can't handle closing. Arthur Rhodes couldn't. Robertson apparently couldn't. You have to give some extra credit for being able to handle the ninth. Should it be as much extra credit as the general public gives, No. But you do have to give extra credit.

Also,

WPA: Relievers

Jim Johnson 4.23

Vinnie Pestano 3.47

Aroldis Chapman 3.13

Fernando Rodney 3.06

Steve Cishek 2.76

Strop 2.20

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=n&type=3&season=2012

The WPA has some validity, but the other stuff...not so much. Did Strop blow any of his saves when he was pitching the 9th? He filled the "closer" role just fine when JJ has ill.

Not sure how much weight to give WPA, does it trump Strop's WAR advantage? Fangraphs has JJ having a higher WPA then Chapman, I would flip JJ for Chapman in a heartbeat.

[waroriole]

Every game has a different star.

That's the magic of Orioles baseball.

I'll go with Chen. Easily could be Jones, Markakis, Wieters, Johnson or Strop.

Maybe Buck.

[NewMarketSean]

Johnson would get my vote. Especially with the number of 1-run games we've won.

[The Rick]

I can see the argument for Jones, but he'd really have to have a monster September to make me vote for him.

I'd be okay for that.