I was wrong about Davis

[sevastras]

What you missed was several posters in this thread saying they were wrong. No need for you to look anything up.

I admit, I didnt read through the whole thing before I posted. I just remember the conversation a few weeks ago and thinking after tonight, I told you so.

[Frobby]

Your faith in Reimold is a lot higher than mine. He begins next year at 29. He is past his peak year in normal terms and that means for projection that he probably has already shown what type of player he is. He has 808 at bats in 4 years. I would project he would be limited to getting about 200 at bats next year due to injury or poor performance. He could get that playing against lefthand pitching in a platoon with McLouth in left with some at bats coming at DH and never impact Davis getting 500 at bats. So if Davis gets 500 at bats maybe that makes him core.

My faith in Reimold is no higher than yours. If he's healthy, he will make the team and get some playing time, that's all I'm saying. It is obvious we can't count on him to be healthy.

On the other hand, it's highly likely that Nick Markakis plays more than 104 games next year, and that means less time in RF for Davis. He had 85 PA there coming into tonight.

No point speculating about it too much since we could see some offseason moves that change the picture in some way. For example, if Betemit is traded that opens a lot of PA for Davis.

[Frobby]

Davis has proven me wrong too. But he waited until Late August to start doing it. Davis started taking pitches and drawing walks, which was a huge weakness.

You raise a great point here. Davis has walked 10 times in his last 26 games, in which he has hit

.337/.413/.653 with 8 HR and 17 RBI. He had only walked 26 times in 104 games prior to that.

Davis has had three hellacious hot streaks this year, but this one is the longest.

[OsFan1987]

theres no point to sign a starter if hes not a true 1 or 2. We have about 10 #3-5 starters. Ace and 2nd please.

[Brendan25]

I am pretty sure that I may have been the first one to start a thread praising Davis. I just love his swing and his power potential is off the charts. He needs some work, needs some patience, but I think he has a bright future here.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm not sure Davis is part of the "core" but he is a piece that fits pretty nicely on this team.

Yea, that's what I was going to say. He's good enough to play a role, or even start most of the time given the right roster. But he's still a negative with the glove no matter where he plays, and this has been his peak offensive season and he has a 115ish OPS+ and a 5:1 K:BB ratio.

I'm comfortable if he's your insurance policy and possible platoon player at 1B/DH/LF/RF, but not nearly so much if you're penciling him for 600 PAs at one spot.

[Moose Milligan]

I'd like to see Reynolds at 1st next year with Davis at DH.

I've said it before, I'll say it again...for years, this board has whined about not having big power bats...well, now we have two. They're not OBP machines, but they can go deep, both of these guys have 35+ homer power. Combine that with Jones and we've got some good power in our lineup.

[wildcard]

The crying need for this team next year is 2b and bench depth. There are simply few options off the bench both in case of injury(especially infield) and

pinch hitting. Love what Thome's done, but I cant see him back.Mclouth earned less than 2 million this year and is a free agent. I think 2.5-3.5 for three could be a steal. Hes a very good baserunnerand solid hitter,a plus defender. This could be a great big signing in the offseason and I'm sure he'd appreciate the Orioles having faith in him. I dont see a dire need for starting pitchers

especially with Wada returning and Bundy waiting in the wings.Matusz and Arrieta should get another crack at the rotation, but Matusz is winning people over in his bullpen role.

I'd strengthen the pen and look for a high OB% guy as another reserve outfielder.

I agree on having McLouth back and he shouldn't be too expensive because he does not hit lefties well. He is a platoon player from what he has shown. Also agree on the need for bench depth. I think there is enough starting pitching that Saunders probably does not get $6M from the O's. He looks like a 4 or 5 slot starter that eats innings. The O's probably spend that money elsewhere. I think the O's are growing their #1 and #2 starters. Tillman, Gonzo and Chen could all fit that mold and Bundy with the O's in the 2nd half of 2013 would be no surprise.

The 2nd base thing is tricky. I think Roberts comes back. What he has left and how durable he will be could vary wildly. That is why a solid backup is needed. Someone that hits better than Andino but has his range. Flaherty probably needs some time at AAA so he can hit well and push his way in the starting lineup instead of being just utility guy. If he goes down and puts up an 800 OPS for 3 months he could be a big factor for the O's goes forward.

I think a righthanded hitting 2B/3B backup may be the O's biggest need this off season. And that is saying a lot considering where the O's were a year ago. DD and Buck have done a masterful job at adding players.

[crowmst3k!]

Is Machado your OD 3B next year?

The only way he isn't is Duquette and Showalter moving him to Short, Hardy to second, and bringing in a 3b from outside the organization.

In short: He'll be a starting infielder in 2013...where, exactly? We'll see.

[DrungoHazewood]

I see your point. But it is opinion thing. I think of Roenicke and Lowenstein as core players on the 83 WS team. They weren't All-Stars like Eddie and Cal but the were as core as Dempsey or Dauer. And surely Dempsey and Dauer were core. So under that line of thinking Davis is core to the current O's team. Davis will end up with over 500 at bats and probably 30 homers and right now he is second in OPS to only Adam Jones on the team among hitters that will end up is 500 at bats.

If Rich Dauer, who was a replacement-level player less than two years from being out of baseball, was a core player, you're essentially defining core as anyone who got a lot of at bats. By that definition Andino is a core player. So is Reynolds. Basically any semi-regular, regardless of performance, is a core player by your definition.

Which kind of renders the term meaningless, as you'd have core players who obviously need to improve or be replaced.

[wildcard]

Yea, that's what I was going to say. He's good enough to play a role, or even start most of the time given the right roster. But he's still a negative with the glove no matter where he plays, and this has been his peak offensive season and he has a 115ish OPS+ and a 5:1 K:BB ratio.

I'm comfortable if he's your insurance policy and possible platoon player at 1B/DH/LF/RF, but not nearly so much if you're penciling him for 600 PAs at one spot.

If Davis can hit 30 homers and knock in a bunch of runs as the O's main DH and backup 1B while getting 500 at bats, that is pretty core to me. He has to learn how to play a better 1B to make that happen but I think he has both the skill and the mind set to improve at 1B with a lot of work. That is what I am hoping to see Buck tell Davis to do this off season.

[Brendan25]

The only way he isn't is Duquette and Showalter moving him to Short, Hardy to second, and bringing in a 3b from outside the organization.

In short: He'll be a starting infielder in 2013...where, exactly? We'll see.

That isn't happening. Hardy and Machado will be on the left side.

[Tony-OH]

Didn't we have a gentleman's bet as to whether Davis would have an ISO over .200? Davis fell under that for a while in his last cold streak but I think tonight's game ices it.

I have to admit Davis has turned out a little better than I expected -- and I advocated giving him at least 500 PA. His OPS is .801 right now, which is higher than I projected by a good bit.

If we did, I'll happy to honor it. Just let me know what it was. I think the best thing he did this year was show he can play an effective outfield. He moves better than a lot of people think and I'm not so sure he's not faster than Markakis.

[wildcard]

If Rich Dauer, who was a replacement-level player less than two years from being out of baseball, was a core player, you're essentially defining core as anyone who got a lot of at bats. By that definition Andino is a core player. So is Reynolds. Basically any semi-regular, regardless of performance, is a core player by your definition.

Which kind of renders the term meaningless, as you'd have core players who obviously need to improve or be replaced.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Dauer played 10 years for the O's, 6 of which he played in at least 125 games. That included two World Series teams. He was a main stay at 2B were he played low error baseball which was a great fit for what those teams needed from him. He is anb O's Hall of Famer. That was a core player. You can call him replacement level if you want but you should also call him Sir in respect of what he did for the O's franchise.

Now that Reynolds is an above average 1B defensive there is no reason to believe he is not a core player for the O's. On a normal year he hits 35 homers and knocks in a bunch of runs. He now fits with the O's as a two way player the way he never could have when he was trying to play 3B. I have not problem with giving Reynolds an extension this off season.

Andino is not consistent enough to be a core player. At least he has not shown it yet and he is in his late 20's which means he has probably shown us what kind of player he is. He goes through times where he makes too many errors. His bat has not improved when given the opportunity to play more this year. And his salary is now approaching 2M this off season. With Machado playing 3B and backing up SS, Andino value to the team is less important. A righthanded hitting player that can back up 2B and 3B, play sound defense at those positions and hit for a decent OBP is probably needed more then what Andino has shown he can give.

[Ampontan]

If we did, I'll happy to honor it. Just let me know what it was. I think the best thing he did this year was show he can play an effective outfield. He moves better than a lot of people think and I'm not so sure he's not faster than Markakis.

That was also an excellent throw the other night to get the runner at third base, and he's not afraid to dive for balls.