Jump to content

Eric Gagne alleges 80% of Dodgers were using PEDs


Migrant Redbird

Recommended Posts

MLB article

ESPN reports reactions of Adrian Beltre, other teammates

I haven't read Gagne's book nor any excerpts from it, so I'll limit my comments.

I think Gagne's allegations, plus those of Tom House about players in the late sixties and early seventies, do confirm that PEDs usage has been a lot higher for a lot longer than most fans realize.

And then there's the flip side, the fans who are convinced without any evidence that all baseball players used PEDs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MLB article

ESPN reports reactions of Adrian Beltre, other teammates

I haven't read Gagne's book nor any excerpts from it, so I'll limit my comments.

I think Gagne's allegations, plus those of Tom House about players in the late sixties and early seventies, do confirm that PEDs usage has been a lot higher for a lot longer than most fans realize.

And then there's the flip side, the fans who are convinced without any evidence that all baseball players used PEDs.

You left out Canseco and Caminiti both of whom put use at 50%+

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You left out Canseco and Caminiti both of whom put use at 50%+

I wasn't aware that Caminiti made an estimate and I don't give Canseco much credibility. However, I also omitted mention of the Mitchell Report and the "anonymous" 2003 list of players who flunked voluntary steroids tests. I didn't realize that I was supposed to write a comprehensive history of PEDs use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't aware that Caminiti made an estimate and I don't give Canseco much credibility. However, I also omitted mention of the Mitchell Report and the "anonymous" 2003 list of players who flunked voluntary steroids tests. I didn't realize that I was supposed to write a comprehensive history of PEDs use.

You were mentioning former players who have come forward with projections concerning steroid use. I was merely providing additional information.

I don't give any of them a high degree of credibility as they were all trying to sell books.

No need to be testy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MLB article

ESPN reports reactions of Adrian Beltre, other teammates

And then there's the flip side, the fans who are convinced without any evidence that all baseball players used PEDs.

While I am sure that not ALL players used. I am pretty certain that a majority probably did. I still think that a pretty decent percentage do them today.(10%?) They just havent gotten caught.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't aware that Caminiti made an estimate and I don't give Canseco much credibility. However, I also omitted mention of the Mitchell Report and the "anonymous" 2003 list of players who flunked voluntary steroids tests. I didn't realize that I was supposed to write a comprehensive history of PEDs use.

Militant Redbird! I guess you don't give Canseco credibility because he said McGwire used. And we all know that McGwire never did, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Militant Redbird! I guess you don't give Canseco credibility because he said McGwire used. And we all know that McGwire never did, right?

Mike Wallace destroyed Canseco's credibility when he appeared on 6o Minutes. Google up the transcript if you don't recall it.

I'm not saying that Canseco never told the truth, just that it wasn't something on which you could depend.

Caminiti was a little different. His was something on the order of a deathbed confession and therefore would be more credible. However, my recollection was that he spoke primarily about his own use and I didn't recall him ever giving any estimates about overall use.

While I am sure that not ALL players used. I am pretty certain that a majority probably did.

I'm fairly confident that a large number of players have used PEDs, perhaps beginning as early as the fifties with synthetic anabolic steroids and even earlier with natural testosterone (Pud Galvin), but I'm uncomfortable with asserting that it was a majority. However, I wouldn't argue that it wasn't either.

I still think that a pretty decent percentage do them today.(10%?) They just havent gotten caught.

10% sounds like a reasonable WAG. So does 30-40%. There isn't enough publicly available information to make an informed estimate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike Wallace destroyed Canseco's credibility when he appeared on 6o Minutes. Google up the transcript if you don't recall it.

I'm not saying that Canseco never told the truth, just that it wasn't something on which you could depend.

Caminiti was a little different. His was something on the order of a deathbed confession and therefore would be more credible. However, my recollection was that he spoke primarily about his own use and I didn't recall him ever giving any estimates about overall use.

I'm fairly confident that a large number of players have used PEDs, perhaps beginning as early as the fifties with synthetic anabolic steroids and even earlier with natural testosterone (Pud Galvin), but I'm uncomfortable with asserting that it was a majority. However, I wouldn't argue that it wasn't either.

10% sounds like a reasonable WAG. So does 30-40%. There isn't enough publicly available information to make an informed estimate.

But McGwire never used PEDs...right? Right? Say it ain't so!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Posts

    • 800 OPS in slumps is pretty good. Look at Druw Jones or Elijah Green. I believe he’s making some minor adjustments.
    • You are stating that he has a 52nd percentile throwing arm and that his throws are accurate.  Then stating he does not have a good arm?  Those are conflicting statements.  I'm seeing a 91 percentile for arm value, per Baseball Savant.  Moreover, he does not run like an old man.  A statement like that should be reserved for bottom tier percentile runners, not average or slightly below average ones.    I think his defense could continue to improve, yes.  He's only 25.  You are talking as if he's a guy in his early 30s, who is about to hit a cliff.  In Yankee stadium, he should be able to play adequate defense in RF for quite some time. 
    • Agree that Ottavino would be a good target. He’s somewhat similar to Cano in that he’s a lot better against RHB’s, but he’d still be a good add. I would still hope for an even better reliever (either in addition to him or instead of him if they’re only adding one piece) but he would definitely strengthen the BP.
    • That's why I said I don't think it's his top priority. But I do think he thinks about these scenarios. 
    • Yeah. If it were just Mayo for Skubal for 2+ years, you'd have to consider it
    • Not saying I disagree. It would be hard trade to make due to Skubal injury history.
    • I still need to write about Bill this morning. I saw the Celtics are going to the NBA Finals and thats one of the teams Bill played on. Bill played only two seasons with the Celtics in Boston, but was the sixth man for the 1985-86 championship team that is considered by many to be the greatest team in NBA history. Bill was great friends with Larry Bird,Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson and his all time favorite player, on and off the court was Bill Russell. Most people don't know it, but his entire life, Bill dreamed of being a Laker. Jerry West, a man I deeply respect in all aspect of the game, turned down Bill's request for a tryout, and Bill was hurt, and Bill never forgot the rejection. Bill was a rare mix of irreverent and traditional old school at the same time. He cared little for personal honors, preferring excellence in pursuit of perfection. But like all of us, HE was imperfect, and perfection is impossible in life because all of us are mortal. Still, I'd like to see the NBA come up with some sort of permanent honor commemorating Bill. It can 't be an honor that represents Bill's deep commitment to his citizenship, because theres already one, it's called the Walter Kennedy Award. Bill Russell has his name on the NBA MVP Award for the Finals, so theres another one not available for Bill. Still, I'd like to see Bill be honored in an award named after him for something that is not easy to quantify. Joy and love for the game. The player who most exemplifies love and joy, for the sport and for life itself. I don't know how you could even award something like that, but maybe the NBA could poll fans or coaches . Of course, Bill would scoff at some award in his name. He turned me down as an honoree for my charity(now in its 30th year) for many years because he never felt "worthy". And then finally he accepted the award ONLY if he could give the handsome honorarium to a wounded veteran so the vet could help buy a van outfitted for disabled people. What a human being Bill was. The NBA should try and remember him somehow, but it's likely they wont, not with a permanent honor. Because Bill was and will always be hard to quantify with any one award. So whether they do or don't remember Bill, is not really the point I guess. The fact is Bill will be remembered by millions as an original, a joyful soul, who lived every aspect of his life with wonder, passion, and that unquantifiable quality..joy. I have a painting Bill signed for me, that he only posed for if it included John Wooden in the painting. It's a dual painting of Bill and his coach. I see it on my wall now. The inscription says this: "To Roy, thanks for life. Beyond here, lies nothing". That's SOOOO Bill. And so I say today, Bill, thank YOU for (your) LIFE. Beyond here, lies your memory of everything you represented...and it's not nothing. Bill attended close to 1,000 Grateful Dead concerts in his life. He actually played congas on stage with the band several times including one concert at the Pyramid's in Egypt. Last night I found a lyric to a famous "Dead" song, and I want to end this post with those lyrics. Here's what he quoted from that song. "Thank you, and some other things to remember, because there’s a lot going on, We used to play for silver, now we play for life, Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right, I used to be a lost sailor, away too long at sea, now, I’m a tiger in a trance, a saint of circumstance, I sure don’t know what I’m going for, but I’m going to go for it for sure, there’s no time to lose, The first days are the hardest days, don’t worry about it, when life looks like easy street, there’s danger at your door, what I want to know is—are you kind, and will you come with me, it all rolls into one, but nothing comes for free, it’s all about the rhythm, good luck, shine on, thank you, BW.   --------------------------------------------------------------- WOW. Exactly.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...