Congrats to R.A. Dickey

[CA-ORIOLE]

Won his 20th game today for a bad Mets team and has a chance to be the first knuckle baller to win a Cy Young Award.

[OFFNY]

o

R.A. DICKEY O(vs. PIRATES, 9/27) *

IP:O 7.67

H:o. 8

R:O. 3

BB:. 2

SO:. 13

Pitches: 128 (92 Strikes, 36 Balls)

2012 ERA: 2.69

* This was Dickey's 20th win of the season.

[Malike]

He should win it hands down. Take him out of the rotation, and the Mets are likely sub 60 in wins for the season.

[DrungoHazewood]

Won his 20th game today for a bad Mets team and has a chance to be the first knuckle baller to win a Cy Young Award.

That's interesting. It's correct that nobody who fits today's definition of a knuckleballer has ever won the Cy Young. That's partly because pitcher valuation was kind of off in the past. Wilbur Wood had consecutive 10+ WAR seasons as a knuckleballer in the early 70s, including a 1971 season where he led the AL in pitching WAR by almost three wins(!).

Had the Cy Young been invented prior to 1956 a knucklerballer probably would have won it. Or at least a pitcher who used a knuckleball as part of a larger arsenal, since between 1920-60 it was very common for pitchers to mix a knuckler in with 3-4 other pitches. Dazzy Vance, who was one of the dominant pitchers of the 20s and won an MVP, threw a handful of knucklers a game.

[OFFNY]

That's interesting. It's correct that nobody who fits today's definition of a knuckleballer has ever won the Cy Young. That's partly because pitcher valuation was kind of off in the past. Wilbur Wood had consecutive 10+ WAR seasons as a knuckleballer in the early 70s, including a 1971 season where he led the AL in pitching WAR by almost three wins(!).

Had the Cy Young been invented prior to 1956 a knucklerballer probably would have won it. Or at least a pitcher who used a knuckleball as part of a larger arsenal, since between 1920-60 it was very common for pitchers to mix a knuckler in with 3-4 other pitches. Dazzy Vance, who was one of the dominant pitchers of the 20s and won an MVP, threw a handful of knucklers a game.

Very good point about the Cy Young Award having only being around since 1956 ....... and for the first 11 years (1956-1966), there was only one Cy Young awarded for both leagues combined.

I believe that Eddie Cicotte may have won the Cy Young Award in 1917 and 1919 had it been awarded at that time.

[DrungoHazewood]

You know what... I missed something. Early Wynn won the 1959 Cy Young, and he most definitely threw knuckleballs. Maybe he doesn't fit the modern definition of knuckleballer because he wasn't a strict knuckleball pitcher who only used the occasional sort-of-fastball as kind of a trick pitch. Wynn probably threw 25% or 50% knucklers. But he definitely won a Cy Young, and he definitely threw knucklers a lot. He's listed as a member of the 1944 Senators' all knuckler rotation.

So I'd count Dickey, if he wins, as the 2nd Cy Young knuckleballer.

[CA-ORIOLE]

You know what... I missed something. Early Wynn won the 1959 Cy Young, and he most definitely threw knuckleballs. Maybe he doesn't fit the modern definition of knuckleballer because he wasn't a strict knuckleball pitcher who only used the occasional sort-of-fastball as kind of a trick pitch. Wynn probably threw 25% or 50% knucklers. But he definitely won a Cy Young, and he definitely threw knucklers a lot. He's listed as a member of the 1944 Senators' all knuckler rotation.

So I'd count Dickey, if he wins, as the 2nd Cy Young knuckleballer.

Wow, that's really cool stuff. I'm vaguely familiar with Wynn. It looks like Wynn was a fastball/curve ball guy and a power pitcher for most of his career. From this article it appears he first started using the knuckler in 1959 (the year he won the Cy Young at 39). According to him he threw it about 12-20 times a game that year (article was dated June 18th). That's quite a bit less than the 25-50% you quoted. Since he pitched until 1963, I'd assume he mixed it in more in the following years. Based on this I'm not sure I agree the Dickey would be the "second Knuckle baller to win the Cy Young", but not much doubt that it helped Wynn a lot that year and helped extend his HOF career. Pretty interesting.

Edit: Kinda interesting he's member the Senators all knuckler rotation from 1944, when by his own admission he didn't start throwing it until 1959. Also interesting the he states he had been accused (wrongly by his statement) of throwing the knuckler for years.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=897&dat=19590618&id=ircKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=E04DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5314,318850

[DrungoHazewood]

Wow, that's really cool stuff. I'm vaguely familiar with Wynn.

All I really know about Wynn is:1) He's in the Hall2) He won exactly 300 games3) He extended his career about as far as humanly possible to get to 300 wins. He was a 43-year-old junkballing reliever for most of his last season, and got win 300 in a 5-inning, 4-run game in his 2nd-to-last major league start.

[CA-ORIOLE]

All I really know about Wynn is:1) He's in the Hall2) He won exactly 300 games3) He extended his career about as far as humanly possible to get to 300 wins. He was a 43-year-old junkballing reliever for most of his last season, and got win 300 in a 5-inning, 4-run game in his 2nd-to-last major league start.

Well, we know more now.

I remember from my days as a kid looking up almost every player in existance in the baseball encyclopedia, reading every baseball book and magazine possible, and from his strat-o-matic baseball card from the 1954 Cleveland Indians. Strat-o-matic issued cards for great teams from baseball history in the early 1970's. I of course never saw him pitch. Maybe El Gordo did.

[OFFNY]

You know what... I missed something. Early Wynn won the 1959 Cy Young, and he most definitely threw knuckleballs. Maybe he doesn't fit the modern definition of knuckleballer because he wasn't a strict knuckleball pitcher who only used the occasional sort-of-fastball as kind of a trick pitch. Wynn probably threw 25% or 50% knucklers. But he definitely won a Cy Young, and he definitely threw knucklers a lot. He's listed as a member of the 1944 Senators' all knuckler rotation.

So I'd count Dickey, if he wins, as the 2nd Cy Young knuckleballer.

Wow, that's really cool stuff. I'm vaguely familiar with Wynn ........

All I really know about Wynn is:1) He's in the Hall2) He won exactly 300 games3) He extended his career about as far as humanly possible to get to 300 wins. He was a 43-year-old junkballing reliever for most of his last season, and got win 300 in a 5-inning, 4-run game in his 2nd-to-last major league start.

Well, we know more now .........

I remember from my days as a kid looking up almost every player in existance in the baseball encyclopedia, reading every baseball book and magazine possible, and from his strat-o-matic baseball card from the 1954 Cleveland Indians. Strat-o-matic issued cards for great teams from baseball history in the early 1970's. I of course never saw him pitch. Maybe El Gordo did.

I remember reading on the back of a 1974 TOPPS baseball card that Wynn won his 300th game at the age of 43 (as Hazewood pointed out), and they had a cartoon drawing of a man with a Rip Van Winkle beard down to his waist tossing a pitch. :laughlol: