Who Gets Suspended Next?

[section18]

Thanks Roy! Great speech by the way at OP for Brooks last Saturday....and a great game that evening. I go to between 20 and 25 games every year and that was one of the best I've attended.

[section18]

Baseless witch hunting? Really! Suddenly guys start doubling their power numbers as they get older and its okay. Guys that hit 330' homers before are now hitting 430' homers. Muscle milk or protein bars? I would like one of the national writers to interview the guys I named in my opening post and ask them why they think they have shown such a big increase in their power numbers. New diet and workout program? New bats? Maybe Roy can ask them.

[Crazysilver03]

Baseless witch hunting? Really! Suddenly guys start doubling their power numbers as they get older and its okay. Guys that hit 330' homers before are now hitting 430' homers. Muscle milk or protein bars? I would like one of the national writers to interview the guys I named in my opening post and ask them why they think they have shown such a big increase in their power numbers. New diet and workout program? New bats? Maybe Roy can ask them.

As they get older? Every one of these players saw their numbers go up in the mid to late 20s, when players hit their prime.

And you fail to acknowledge the arguments I made for Reddick and Granderson. Reddick is hiring home runs at about the same Hr/AB rate he was in the minors. And Granderson saw his gap power become home run power.

[section18]

I've seen Granderson hit HR's at OP the last 2 seasons that McGuire and Sosa would have admired and I've seen his manager Joe G look at his coaches and other players in the dugout and shake their heads after another one of his 430 foot bombs. Cano is also putting the distance on his shots this year. Encarnacion is a guy we've discussed on here for 4 or 5 years and a number of us wondered if he would be the answer for us at 3B if we traded for him or signed him as a FA. Why? We wondered if he would provide enough power for us. Well! We now know the answer to that question. Players in the past would come into their prime by hitting for higher average and knocking in more runs and maybe hit a few more HR's. You can still hit more 330' HR's but to suddenly start crushing the ball and adding 100' + to your HR's is cause for wonder.

[Loophole]

I hate to feed the troll but...

Try looking just a little bit at Granderson's actual numbers. He actually explained this on that Caught Looking show about the O's-Yankees series. The NYY pitching coach worked with him, tweaked his swing and taught him to hit lefties at a decent clip. I know it's difficult to actually look things up before throwing accusations around, so I'll do it for you.

HR vs. RHP:

2005: 6

2006: 15

2007: 20

2008: 17

2009: 28

2010: 20

2011: 25

2012: 27

HR vs. LHP:

2005: 2

2006: 4

2007: 3

2008: 5

2009: 2

2010: 4

2011: 16

2012: 14

Now are you going to tell me there are PEDs out there that only give you a power boost against LHP?

And Cano? You're seriously going to be suspicious of someone who had a power breakout in their age 26-29 years? Aside from that obvious factor, he also learned to hit LHP better. And hey, another thing: you noticed that his power burst started four years ago. What else happened four years ago that might've affected a left-handed Yankees batter? Could it possibly be the new stadium with a closer right field deck and overall increased park factors for hitting?

The field dimensions for the outfield fences have the same distance markers as the original facility prior to closing yet the dimensions are not identical.[39] Due to the design of the right-field stands and the inclusion of an embedded manual scoreboard, the right-field wall is an average of 5 feet (1.5 m) closer to home plate.[40]

2008:

Park Factors  Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.  multi-year: Batting - 103, Pitching - 101 ? one-year: Batting - 103, Pitching - 102

2011:

Park Factors  Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.  multi-year: Batting - 106, Pitching - 107 ? one-year: Batting - 108, Pitching - 106

And check it out. You can look at all his home runs. Look where he hits them. Look at the average distance over the years -- there's no trend. Here's Granderson. His average HR distances have been trending down. The speed off bat numbers don't seem to show any trend. Looks like a guy who's been hitting the same types of home runs he's always hit, just against LHPs as well.

How enlightening it is to actually do some research before pointing fingers. All this information was extremely easy to find.

Reddick has been explained to you. As for Encarnacion? I don't know. I don't really care. The point is, if you're willing to point your finger at him for having an unexplained power burst this year, you better be ready to point it at Brady in '96. You want journos to ask him to explain it? You realize he's probably been asked that a dozen times this year, right?

Would it surprise me if any of these players used? No. It wouldn't surprise me if anyone used. That doesn't make it sensible or sane to go nuts accusing players for making improvements ballplayers have been making for years. You have no idea if they're juicing and you have no way of finding out; it's not like players are turning themselves into superhumans like Mark and Sammy in the late 90s. Most of the players who get caught are marginal minor leaguers who weren't doing a damn thing with the stick. And it generally isn't good manners to make serious accusations about people without any evidence, even if no one here cares, and especially guys like Granderson -- I hate him cause he's a Yankee, but I'd be a fool to ignore his great character and all the good he's brought to baseball (and it's not like it's his fault he was traded). But good job heckling one of the classiest guys in the sport, you're really making us O's fans look good... acting like a MFY fan.

[section18]

Was the last sentence necessary? I knew about everything you said on here. I don't see you ripping Roy's comments. Roy talks to people all around baseball and I think one day you will have a different opinion. Ask NY fans what they think of these two players power. They shake their heads just like their manager. Ask AROD and Tex what they think. AROD is under the magnifying glass already so he has to be careful. How much do you think Granderson ($10 million currently)and Encarnacion ($3.5 million) will be paid on their next contract? After two back to back 40+ HR seasons and over 100 RBI seasons what is CG worth? How about EE doubling his numbers this year?

Edwin was smart he signed a 3 year deal in July. The following article has some interesting quotes if you care to read it;

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8159797/toronto-blue-jays-sign-infielder-edwin-encarnacion-contract-extension

Curtis is signed for one more year;

2009: $3.5 million.

2010: $5.5 million.

2011: $8.25 million.

2012: $10.0 million.

2013: $13.0 million club option w/ $2.0 million buyout.

2014: Free Agent

[waroriole]

Was the last sentence necessary? I knew about everything you said on here. I don't see you ripping Roy's comments. Roy talks to people all around baseball and I think one day you will have a different opinion. Ask NY fans what they think of these two players power. They shake their heads just like their manager.

That's not the point. The point is, you don't go accusing seemingly innocent people of stuff without having SOME proof. You have NONE. It's just poor taste.

[section18]

Did the millions that were suspicious of Bonds, Sosa and McGuire have any proof? It's an opinion. I am entitled to mine and you re entitled to yours. I never wrote anything about the three named above. I didn't feel it was necessary. Many seemed to share the same opinion.

[foxfield]

So what are we to do? It seems clear that there are still people cheating, and if throwing names out there is classless or tasteless then what? As Roy pointed out, there is no testing for HGH and essentially little testing during the season. There are still cheaters out there. I disagree with Drungo that the guys getting caught are bit players and random relievers. I'll give you three in the last year. Melky Cabrera, Bartolo Colon and Ryan Braun.

Again what are we to do? Do we hush hush questions when Derek Jeter is 50 and hitting .360? Im not saying Jeter cheats by the way, but lots of people are and there isn't strong evidence of it because baseball still really doesn't want to clean it up.

[ChinMusic]

I've seen Granderson hit HR's at OP the last 2 seasons that McGuire and Sosa would have admired and I've seen his manager Joe G look at his coaches and other players in the dugout and shake their heads after another one of his 430 foot bombs. Cano is also putting the distance on his shots this year. Encarnacion is a guy we've discussed on here for 4 or 5 years and a number of us wondered if he would be the answer for us at 3B if we traded for him or signed him as a FA. Why? We wondered if he would provide enough power for us. Well! We now know the answer to that question. Players in the past would come into their prime by hitting for higher average and knocking in more runs and maybe hit a few more HR's. You can still hit more 330' HR's but to suddenly start crushing the ball and adding 100' + to your HR's is cause for wonder.

The bolded is just ridiculous. When have you ever seen this happen? How many Yankee games do you even watch?

To add to this, Granderson has not hit ONE homerun that's gone 430 feet this season. In fact, only 11 of his 43 homeruns have been 400 feet or longer. He greatly benefits from the short porch in that bandbox known as new Yankee Stadium. He has 15 homeruns that traveled 370 feet or less!

[Loophole]

Was the last sentence necessary? I knew about everything you said on here. I don't see you ripping Roy's comments. Roy talks to people all around baseball and I think one day you will have a different opinion. Ask NY fans what they think of these two players power. They shake their heads just like their manager. Ask AROD and Tex what they think. AROD is under the magnifying glass already so he has to be careful. How much do you think Granderson ($10 million currently)and Encarnacion ($3.5 million) will be paid on their next contract? After two back to back 40+ HR seasons and over 100 RBI seasons what is CG worth? How about EE doubling his numbers this year?

Edwin was smart he signed a 3 year deal in July. The following article has some interesting quotes if you care to read it;

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8159797/toronto-blue-jays-sign-infielder-edwin-encarnacion-contract-extension

Curtis is signed for one more year;

2009: $3.5 million.

2010: $5.5 million.

2011: $8.25 million.

2012: $10.0 million.

2013: $13.0 million club option w/ $2.0 million buyout.

2014: Free Agent

Absolutely nothing you just said refutes anything I said or makes any new points. You're just repeating the same arguments. Can you please tell me how the PEDs Granderson is supposedly taking only give him a power boost on LHP and not RHP? The numbers are right there and they tell the whole story. He used to suck against lefties, then he learned to hit them. Not just homers, but regular base hits and walks. And yet you still beat on saying the same crap about Joe Girardi shaking his head like that means anything.

No one's ripping on Roy because nothing he said was wrong. Obviously players still juice. He didn't point fingers without any proof and he even said "I'll implicate no one by name, because I dont know for sure." You could learn something.

Did the millions that were suspicious of Bonds, Sosa and McGuire have any proof? It's an opinion. I am entitled to mine and you re entitled to yours. I never wrote anything about the three named above. I didn't feel it was necessary. Many seemed to share the same opinion.

Does it really help your argument when you bring up three players that actually had unbelievable, unexplainable, history-shattering jumps in their home run totals? Players whose arms grew until they looked like tree trunks? You wanna tell me how there's any comparison between them and Granderson/Cano/Encarnacion, whose numbers/physiques wouldn't have looked out of place in the 50s?

[PaulFolk]

Baseless witch hunting? Really! Suddenly guys start doubling their power numbers as they get older and its okay. Guys that hit 330' homers before are now hitting 430' homers.

Really? Care to back up the bolded statement with some sort of evidence? I'd like to see a list of players who have added 100 feet to their average homerun distance from one year to another.

This was an ill-advised idea for a thread, and you've only dug your hole deeper. Time to cut your losses and move on.

[section18]

Last comment only to respond to ChinMusic who made a false statement during work hours.

I have seen the Yankees at OP 5 times this year and seen Granderson hit several long HR'S. I sit on the Oriole dugout side and up near where the ushers stand. I can look right into the visiting teams dugout and have seen in person what I said earlier. I'm not watching on TV. I hope that answers your question. The manager and players do shake their heads when CG crushes his long HR'S. I saw at least three of his HR's at OP this season. I believe he hit others in games I didn't attend. Not sure how many he hit there this season vs last season 2011.

Done ! Watch what happens in the playoffs.

[Why Not?]

I don't think it's outrageous to speculate who is and who is not a PED user. As fans, we would be fools not to question players who suddenly develop big-time power or add a few MPH to their fastball. We've been fooled before. If the players don't like it, they should agree to more stringent testing and more severe penalties.

Make no mistake, baseball players are still using, A LOT.

Any time somebody's career arc is really abnormal, they are going to be suspected. See: Bautista, Jose. Personally, I think it's fair to speculate, given what's happened in the past.

p.s. --- Everybody in the NFL is using.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't think it's outrageous to speculate who is and who is not a PED user. As fans, we would be fools not to question players who suddenly develop big-time power or add a few MPH to their fastball. We've been fooled before. If the players don't like it, they should agree to more stringent testing and more severe penalties.

Make no mistake, baseball players are still using, A LOT.

Any time somebody's career arc is really abnormal, they are going to be suspected. See: Bautista, Jose. Personally, I think it's fair to speculate, given what's happened in the past.

p.s. --- Everybody in the NFL is using.

Feel free to speculate all you want. What I can't stand is the ridiculous speculation with (at best) circumstantial evidence that's treated as ground truth. Section18 basically went from "Joe Girardi laughs and shakes his head about Granderson's homers" to "he's obviously mainlining horse steroids all season long and you're crazy if you don't think so". It's not too far from saying "Fred owns a kitchen knife, people have been killed by a knife, so Fred is obviously a murderer".

I'd tread very carefully here. There have been wild performance variations from baseball's day 1, and now anyone who doesn't have a picture-perfect career arc is being accused of nefarious deeds. I think it reflects very poorly on the people doing the accusations.