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Showalter announces that Joe Saunders will start for #Orioles tomorrow

Greg

By Greg
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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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If Saunders gets creamed and they lose, the starter management for these past few games (and days in the case of Hammel) will haunt me and leave me always wondering what this team could have done if it were put in the best position to succeed. This isn't it.

I'm not saying the O's are definitely going to lose. I'm just saying that they are in a worse position to succeed than they otherwise could have been.

That said, if they win on Friday, I really like the pitching lineup for the ALDS.

So what would you have done, held Tillman back? I don't really understand your remark about Hammel. I've been traveling for a few days, did I miss some big news about him?

For the record, I question nothing Buck has done. He was dealt a difficult hand the way the race played out, and the way certain guys got knicked up at various times, or needed to be rested. So far as I'm concerned, he got 99.9% of what was possible out of this team this year, including the rotation. And I'll feel that way if Joe Saunders goes out and gets bombed tomorrow.

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Mondo Trasho Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Mondo Trasho

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Except of course, ultimately, they didn't need any of the games in Tampa.

In hindsight. How was Buck supposed to know that we'd end up 2 games out of the division or that Oakland would sweep Texas? Each of the three games (at the time they were played) were important games.

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Mondo Trasho Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Mondo Trasho

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I think it was a pretty safe bet that NY was going to sweep.

Okay. So you go into Monday's game at the Rays tied with NY knowing that they'll sweep. You also go into the game one up on Oakland who is playing home against Texas. You want to win the division, but at the very least you want a home WC game. Tillman pitched Friday against the Red Sox, Johnson Saturday and Saunders on Sunday. What in your mind would be the best course of action?

For my money Buck made the correct call. I don't see how he could have played it any other way.

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VeveJones007 Hangout Veteran Council

VeveJones007

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What does this even mean? Hammel rushed himself back and had to throw a simulated game before starting a real game. Buck didn't cause Johnson's injury. And we had to use Chen, Gonzalez and Tillman in the Rays series because we needed those games (for the division or home field advantage). We had no choice.

1) They have said that Hammel could throw on Saturday. They couldn't have planned to get his simulated game done on Sunday just in case? On another note, couldn't they have pitched him fewer innings in the simulated game on Monday? What's the harm if he has to come out of the game on Friday? Saunders would be ready in the bullpen if he was needed.

2) Tillman should not have pitched on Wednesday. The Yankees were very unlikely to lose to Boston. It wasn't worth wasting Tillman when you could have saved him for an elimination game against a team that he has pitched very well against in the past.

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Mondo Trasho Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Mondo Trasho

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2) Tillman should not have pitched on Wednesday. The Yankees were very unlikely to lose to Boston. It wasn't worth wasting Tillman when you could have saved him for an elimination game against a team that he has pitched very well against in the past.

Who do you pitch instead? As in, who on our staff would you trot out there yesterday that you also trust to win? We needed yesterday's game too. It wasn't a meaningless game.

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VeveJones007 Hangout Veteran Council

VeveJones007

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So what would you have done, held Tillman back? I don't really understand your remark about Hammel. I've been traveling for a few days, did I miss some big news about him?

For the record, I question nothing Buck has done. He was dealt a difficult hand the way the race played out, and the way certain guys got knicked up at various times, or needed to be rested. So far as I'm concerned, he got 99.9% of what was possible out of this team this year, including the rotation. And I'll feel that way if Joe Saunders goes out and gets bombed tomorrow.

Read my posts from Tuesday night and during the day on Wednesday. I was very vocal in saying that the reward did not outweigh the risk of wasting Tillman on Wednesday, especially if the Rangers would be the opponent (which Buck knew before game time).

As for Hammel. He threw a simulated game on Monday. They couldn't have planned for him to throw the simulated game on Sunday? If he needed a couple more days since his last bullpen, they couldn't have planned to have that bullpen pushed up one more day? If none of that was possible, what's the harm in having him get up and down for 3-4 innings on Monday, so that he could be available for 5 on Friday?

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VeveJones007 Hangout Veteran Council

VeveJones007

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Who do you pitch instead? As in, who on our staff would you trot out there yesterday that you also trust to win? We needed yesterday's game too. It wasn't a meaningless game.

In the context of winning the division, the game was almost meaningless. The chances of the Yankees losing to the Red Sox was less than a Hunter/Arrieta/Bundy patchwork against the Rays.

The only likely thing to be decided by yesterday's game was home field for the WC game. That matters much less than having a better pitcher on the mound to start the game.

BTW, are you conceding point #1 about Hammel?

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Mondo Trasho Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Mondo Trasho

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In the context of winning the division, the game was almost meaningless. The chances of the Yankees losing to the Red Sox was less than a Hunter/Arrieta/Bundy patchwork against the Rays.

The only likely thing to be decided by yesterday's game was home field for the WC game. That matters much less than having a better pitcher on the mound to start the game.

It's a risk either way. What's killing us now isn't management of the pitching staff. It's the fact that we've lost two and a half pitchers to injury (Wolf, Hammel, Johnson) and another one (Britton) to ineffectiveness. If we had the Britton of late August, if Hammel or Wolf were available down the stretch and Johnson hadn't hurt himself in that game we'd be in a better position for this game.

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VeveJones007 Hangout Veteran Council

VeveJones007

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It's a risk either way. What's killing us now isn't management of the pitching staff. It's the fact that we've lost two and a half pitchers to injury (Wolf, Hammel, Johnson) and another one (Britton) to ineffectiveness. If we had the Britton of late August, if Hammel or Wolf were available down the stretch and Johnson hadn't hurt himself in that game we'd be in a better position for this game.

It only depends on your estimate of the Yankees' chances of winning yesterday. IMO, the Red Sox had a 10% chance of winning. Do you chase those odds or do you take the risk averse option and save your better option for a 1-and-done elimination game (or a tie-breaker game vs. NY if you get lucky). I take the risk averse option.

I can understand why others would start Tillman on Wednesday. That's why I said the decision would haunt me if they lose due to Saunders on Friday. It's a tough call, but I would have gone a different route.

Still, none of that addresses the Hammel situation, which I'm actually upset about. I understand that he's hurt and coming back, but we're talking about 24 hours here. They needed to do everything in their power to make that simulated game start on Sunday. If they couldn't, then they needed to limit his pitches so that he could be available in a pinch on Friday.

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VeveJones007 Hangout Veteran Council

VeveJones007

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Listening to Buck on MASN. I think he is going to pull Saunders for Steve quickly in the game. It was clear he wasn't 100% about Steve's knee. That's why they had a workout today.

Start to calm down again

I could get behind a piggy-back start. It's the thought of Saunders going through that order twice that frightens me the most.

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