Baseball 101

[mark_beckens]

Yea, I don't get the argument that you leave your best rounds in the chamber in an extremely important, winnable game. Well... unless you're upset and have thrown logic to the wind after your closer blows a tie game the night before. And who hasn't done something like that?

He made one, maybe 2 mistakes the whole inning. Martin's HR and the pitch to Cano was up but was a great piece of hitting. If he tries to pull that it's a 4-6-3 DP. Jeter hits a 10 hopper through the right side, Ichiro gets a swinging bunt.

[srh523]

Either doesn't the theory that Jones would have successfully sac bunted

In that situation all he would have to do is put the ball in play..... I would have much rather taken the odds that AJ could successfully bunt a ball in to fair territory.... especially taking into account his current slumping ways when he swings away!

and let me state my issue isnt really with JJ coming in.... I could go either way on that but AJ not bunting or successfully sac'n in someway just eats at me...

[mark_beckens]

In that situation all he would have to do is put the ball in play..... I would have much rather taken the odds that AJ could successfully bunt a ball in to fair territory.... especially taking into account his current slumping ways when he swings away!

Just put the ball in play? So a grounder to the 3B, pop up, fly ball to the left fielder and you're happy?

[Todd-O]

You don't bring your closer in unless it's a close situation. I said it when JJ came in and we see what happened. Very poor move by Buck. Not to mention leaving Patton in too long. He got bailed out of that one.

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20-20. Johnson was up and warming. He had been starting to get ready late 7th. You put the guy in and hope you finish it off in the bottom of the 9th.

It was a good move by Buck at the time, it just didn't work out for us.

If it were that obvious, Buck Showalter would be at home, and you'd be in the dugout! He's gotten us this far, he's the expert... the paid professional... I stick with Buck on this.

[srh523]

Just put the ball in play? So a grounder to the 3B, pop up, fly ball to the left fielder and you're happy?

i believe i said successfully sac'n in someway..... i will give it to you guys you are experts at only looking at parts of posts....

and i was referring to the bunt so a bunt to left field would have worked!

[PaulFolk]

I was afraid of this. That the loss would spawn a slew of reactionary threads that have little thought and zero baseball knowledge behind them.

Why don't we take a look at the numbers? This season, Jim Johnson pitched in 17 games in non-save situations. He gave up a grand total of 5 earned runs...and ALL FIVE of those runs came in a single outing, a 19-7 loss to the Twins on July 16.

So Johnson pitched in 17 non-save situations this year, and in 16 of those 17, he didn't allow a single run. He pitched several times in tie games and held the opposition scoreless every time.

To say that a manager should refuse to use his closer in a tie game, in the PLAYOFFS, when that pitcher has been unscored upon the entire season in such situations, is pure lunacy. It shows a complete lack of understanding of baseball strategy. Thankfully the Orioles have a manager who passed Baseball 101, not to mention Baseball 102 and every other higher-level baseball course, who made exactly the right move in that situation. It was literally the first time all season that it didn't pay off.

[mark_beckens]

i believe i said successfully sac'n in someway..... i will give it to you guys you are experts at only looking at parts of posts....

and i was referring to the bunt so a bunt to left field would have worked!

In that situation all he would have to do is put the ball in play.....

<----Did you say that?

[srh523]

<----Did you say that?

I said "In that situation all he would have to do is put the ball in play..... I would have much rather taken the odds that AJ could successfully bunt a ball in to fair territory." again referring to bunting a ball into fair territory so yes any ball in play on a bunt excluding a pop up would have worked just fine.....

sorry for the 2nd post when I originally edited it didnt take...

[CSB Jack]

Derek Jeter and his 216 hits had no problem laying down a sac bunt.... and if AJ cant sac bunt (I dont care if he hasnt done it for 5 yrs) then SMH.....

Jeter is not the right comp for this situation, A-Rod is. Jones is a guy you want hitting in that situation. If he's bunting in that situation it's for a base hit and he's doing it on his own, but I would question that decision. With Hardy on second and nobody out I prefer to have Jones, Wieters, and Reynolds try to get a hit to drive in a runner who is already in scoring position than to have Jones give himself up. Try to hit the ball to the right side, yes - and Jones has had some success at doing that. But just flat out attempt to sacrifice? That's not my first choice.

As for the OP, you should be using your best reliever in the high leverage situation. If you don't bring in Johnson then, it's because of something other than because he's your "closer" and it isn't a save situation.

[glenn__davis]

I was afraid of this. That the loss would spawn a slew of reactionary threads that have little thought and zero baseball knowledge behind them.

Why don't we take a look at the numbers? This season, Jim Johnson pitched in 17 games in non-save situations. He gave up a grand total of 5 earned runs...and ALL FIVE of those runs came in a single outing, a 19-7 loss to the Twins on July 16.

So Johnson pitched in 17 non-save situations this year, and in 16 of those 17, he didn't allow a single run. He pitched several times in tie games and held the opposition scoreless every time.

To say that a manager should refuse to use his closer in a tie game, in the PLAYOFFS, when that pitcher has been unscored upon the entire season in such situations, is pure lunacy. It shows a complete lack of understanding of baseball strategy. Thankfully the Orioles have a manager who passed Baseball 101, not to mention Baseball 102 and every other higher-level baseball course, who made exactly the right move in that situation. It was literally the first time all season that it didn't pay off.

I think this pretty much covers it.

Sorry, Satyr - you are correct that you are entitled to your opinion, but going to Johnson there is absolutely baseball 101.

[srh523]

Lets just get hits with RISP tonight so we can all be friends again tomorrow! LOL

[Fla_O'sfan]

You don't bring your closer in unless it's a close situation. I said it when JJ came in and we see what happened. Very poor move by Buck. Not to mention leaving Patton in too long. He got bailed out of that one.

There is NEVER a close situation in an extra inning game at home. You are NEVER going to be ahead in the top half inning when the opponent is batting in an extra inning game. So you are saying that you NEVER use your closer at home when in extra innings? Makes zero sense.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Pitching your best relief pitcher in a highly leveraged situation and one of the most important games in 15 years seems to be baseball 101.

[Jagwar]

Answer this for me. How many holds does JJ have? And how many saves? Pretty simple questions and pretty obvious stats.

Of course JJ doesn't have any holds... it's not his role, and he is never in a situation where he is asked to hold a lead. And he had 51 saves, because that is his role. But he has ZERO saves in home games where the score is tied going into the 9th inning... because it is impossible for him to get a save the rest of the game. JJ is one of the team's best pitchers. And in a tie game at home going into the 9th, in a situation where extra innings is likely, you don't want to leave your best pitcher in the bullpen... period.

You are defending an indefensible position. Once the game goes to the top of the 9th with a tie score, there are only two possibilities for your closer... a tie game or trailing. He cannot pitch in a save situation for the rest of the game.

So I'll ask again, if using JJ in a tie game in the 9th last night wasn't the right time to bring him in... in your baseball 101 universe, what IS the right time to bring him in?

[Tony-OH]

No it wouldn't. You use a closer to close and a reliever to hold.

JJ is not only our closer but our best reliever. At home, in the 9th in a tie game, you should use your best reliever in order to give you the best chance to get to the bottom of the 9th tied. If you only use your closer in save situations, you would never use your closer in a game like this or in extra innings while the home team, and that would be crazy.