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Every time I watch Posey hit...


Pedro Cerrano

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I agree, his defensive prowess is nice and I'd rather be with him than without him, too.

However, it's hard to watch him hit sometimes...and his bat is why we drafted him and why we all drooled over him when he was in the minors. I don't want to sound completely ungrateful, there are a lot of teams out there that'd love to have him...but Posey's numbers are what I was expecting/hoping from him.

Glad to hear he's a nice guy, but I'd take a team of Ty Cobbs if it meant they could all get on base at a .360-.400 clip.

I agree. I suppose I've just stopped expecting amazing numbers from his bat and accepted that maybe it's just never going to get to that point and focus more on his defensive abilities. that being said, he's still young. maybe his offensive breakthrough will come out next season? :pray:

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Posey had a better offensive year than Wieters. There, does that make it any better?

However, until Wieters plays under the same conditions in term of number of game caught. strength of lineup in front of him, and weather conditions I don't think that we know whether Wieters can do what Posey did this year.

If you ask me the slow bats thing is related to his workload. You squat behind the plate for 132 games and see what it does to your legs and how it effect your bat. It has to have an effect.

I have been saying this for years in the comparison of Wieters to Mauer. Their respective managers treat them differently. Mauer is a hitter that catches. Wieters is a catcher that hits.

Why does it only seem to really effect his left handed hitting? He's clearly not a good left handed hitter. I dont think you can draw a conclusion on his bat speed left handed to his work load.

I know it seems like im back tracking...But I'm not.

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Aaaaaaaa, I don't think we know if Matt could do what Posey did this year. Matt is used much differently.

Posey started 111 games at catcher. He started at 1st 29 games. Catching is by far the hardest position on the body. Posey got breaks which was good for his body. As far as his 103 RBI he had Pagan (335 OBP), Scutaro (348 OBP) and Sandoval (342 OBP). More runners on base. More chances to drive them in.

Posey is used something like Mauer is used but not to that extreme. Less time at catcher equals better offensive production.

By comparison, Wieters start 132 games at catcher. 21 games more and over 200 innings more behind the plate. It takes a toll. That is the way Buck and Wieters wants it because he is calling the games for a bunch of rookie pitchers. Even Saunders and Hammel marvel at Wieters game calling. Meanwhile Posey is calling games for a veteran pitching staff. Makes a big difference. He can afford to take days off.

As far as the RBIs. Wieters batted 5th the most. He only had Markakis in front of him for 104 games. Hardy's OBP was 282. There was a bunch of guys who hit 3rd, overall not a high OBP and Jones at 334. If the O's got more base runners on for Wieters he would probably have more RBI. Even more RBI if he wasn't all banged up from catching.

So I don't really think we know what Wieters would do offensively if he caught 111 games and had more guys on base in front of him.

I mean no disrespect by saying this ... But its just a lot of excuse making. Wieters bat is slow and he rarely pulls a ball which diminishes the home field advantage for left handed hitters. IMO a position change would help his problems.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/matt-wieters/hitchart/608689?q=matt-wieters

Some of it is excuse making, but wildcard has a few legit points. Posey had 429 runners on base when he batted, Wieters had 344. Give Wieters 25% more runners on base and he's probably got 100+ RBI. And, I do think he would hit better if he caught fewer games, but we get a lot of value from having Wieters behind the plate so I doubt his workload is going to change much.

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Posey had a better offensive year than Wieters. There, does that make it any better?

However, until Wieters plays under the same conditions in term of number of game caught. strength of lineup in front of him, and weather conditions I don't think that we know whether Wieters can do what Posey did this year.

If you ask me the slow bats thing is related to his workload. You squat behind the plate for 132 games and see what it does to your legs and how it effect your bat. It has to have an effect.

I have been saying this for years in the comparison of Wieters to Mauer. Their respective managers treat them differently. Mauer is a hitter that catches. Wieters is a catcher that hits.

If this were true, then it stands to reason that you would see a decline in his BA/OBP/SLG during the second half of the season compared to the first. So far the opposite is true in every category in every year he's been in the majors.

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thought some might be interested in this article on the evaluation of how a catcher controls the opponents running game. It's also got a really interesting link within the article to some studies done on the subject.

It certainly doesn't provide any excuse to his lack of offensive prowess...but, maybe provide some insight as to his defensive abilities.

so, if you're interested...

http://thecutoffman.mlblogs.com/2012/08/24/evaluating-how-catchers-control-their-opponents-running-game/

:beerchug1:

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If this were true, then it stands to reason that you would see a decline in his BA/OBP/SLG during the second half of the season compared to the first. So far the opposite is true in every category in every year he's been in the majors.

Matt seems to do better at the plate once the heat breaks late in the season.

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Why does it only seem to really effect his left handed hitting? He's clearly not a good left handed hitter. I dont think you can draw a conclusion on his bat speed left handed to his work load.

I know it seems like im back tracking...But I'm not.

I have no answer for that. I just don't know.

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Some of it is excuse making, but wildcard has a few legit points. Posey had 429 runners on base when he batted, Wieters had 344. Give Wieters 25% more runners on base and he's probably got 100+ RBI. And, I do think he would hit better if he caught fewer games, but we get a lot of value from having Wieters behind the plate so I doubt his workload is going to change much.

And I am not suggesting that Buck and Wieters should change the way he is used just to get more offensive production. A year ago I thought that was a good idea. However, when I realized that Wieters work behind that plate is a major reason the O's went to the playoffs, well, how do I argue with that?

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Matt seems to do better at the plate once the heat breaks late in the season.

If you use September 1st as the arbitrary beginning of the "heat break" then with the exception of 2010 this statement is not only true, but remarkably true. But IMO this lends further weight to discounting fatigue as a contributing factor to Weiters' disappointing offensive performance, doesn't it?

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If you use September 1st as the arbitrary beginning of the "heat break" then with the exception of 2010 this statement is not only true, but remarkably true. But IMO this lends further weight to discounting fatigue as a contributing factor to Weiters' disappointing offensive performance, doesn't it?

Think about it. Say you are working out in 95 degree heat, high humdity everyday or nearly everyday. You are fatigued. Then the weather breaks, your boss gives you a day or two off and then you are working in 80 temperatures. Are you less fatigued?

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Think about it. Say you are working out in 95 degree heat, high humdity everyday or nearly everyday. You are fatigued. Then the weather breaks, your boss gives you a day or two off and then you are working in 80 temperatures. Are you less fatigued?

Are you suggesting that a few days of cooler weather - and they would only be a few, because the average September high temperature in Baltimore is still 92 degrees with humidity ranging from 55%-85% - is enough to offset the cumulative effects of roughly 110 full games behind the plate? I guess that could have a small beneficial effect, but isn't the thrust of your argument that the number of innings he catches is excessive, and by implication fewer innings would provide a more meaningful comparison to Buster Posey?

It's reasonable to hypothesize that the wear and tear of a long season behind the plate will have a detrimental effect on the offensive production of a ML catcher. There's just no evidence to conclude that's true in Weiters' case. If anything his first half/second half splits are strikingly similar and that implies that we are seeing what he is as a player, not that he's overworked.

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This is one of the topics I wanted to hit on. In fact, I was listening to some Orioles talk around mid-season and they were complaining about Matt Wieters being somewhat a bust because he was not doing offensively what was expected. I lost my mind in the car that night. I hate taking up for players but Matt is a true good guy in the baseball world and a top notch catcher. In fact, I think he is the best catcher in baseball right now. There is too much focus on his offensive numbers (and he was one of the most productive on the team in RBI this past season). Defensively there is nothing to talk about, he is the best. Offensively, is where people have this perception that he should be a 300/30/100 type of guy, and that is not going to happen. First, the guy is crouched behind the plate all season taking a beating. Second, I think folks forget how hard it is to play in Maryland in the summer. From June through September we are plagued by high heat and awful humidity. This year alone July had many days in the upper 90's to 100 degrees. I am sure that took a hell of a lot from Matt and ultimately aides him in not having a great batting average (and he is a catcher and not very fast to or on the bases). So we get a guy that averages somewhere between 240-260 each season. That is fine for a great catcher that not only throws guys out, but calls great games. If you look at the list of offensive catchers, it is not very long. So to get someone who hits a 250/22/85 line is just fine. Matt has earned his way to what I think should be a big contract. He is someone we need to address and get the dollars to because losing him in the future would be a disaster. The Orioles and the fans should feel blessed to have the best catcher in the league. Also, Matt is still young and he works hard and is usually the first to the stadium before games. With that in mind, he may still have a "breakout" offensive season in him (God forbid that happen in a contract year because the cheap ass Orioles would watch him go out the door to The Yankees). So I love what he brings to the team and he is a player that plays with pride and grit.

Well stated.

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I tend to agree ...Switch hitting only works if your good at both sides of the plate. He should give up batting left handed. Doubt he could do any worse hitting right handed only.

I think this is a great idea. Could he possibly try to disburse his focus in more directions? Managing the pitching staff... hitting in the MOO... hitting from both sides of the plate... and probably fixing toilets at Camden Yards. I mean, try batting him righty only... and let him catch 120 games, play some more DH and first base. And I bet you'd see the guy emerge offensively.

Remember, too, that Wieters carried the team offensively for a portion of the early season! How quickly we forget... We wouldn't have made the playoffs, IMO, without Wieters' bat.

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I felt that way a few years ago. Watching guys like Posey, Brian McCann, and Soto and wonder... wait what! Non of these guys were supposed to be offensive Gods all the while watching super uber prospect Matthew Wieters tappity tap grounders to 2B. But, I'm over it... whatever... Wieters is what he is and I'm fine with that. Could have been 100x worse... he could have been a complete bust. His offense might be a bit disappointing, but his defense and game calling are far superior than advertised when drafted and when you combine the two you have one hell of a catcher.

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