Where We Stand, My Take on Our Offense

[brianod]

C - Wieters, Teagarden - Matt is great defensively and great calling a game. His offense is underrated. He ended up sixth in homeruns and 5th in rbis for all catchers. The downside is that he is slow as molasses and hits into a lot of dps. I would leave the question on an extension open for another year, I don't believe what he did this year would justify a huge contract and I don't think his agent would allow him to sign a reasonable extension at this time. Despite Teagarden's propensity to get unbelievable, clutch hits, I think we should look to do better. Taylor hit .158 with a .226 obp. Nuff said.

1b - Mark Reynolds - Ironically, it's his defense that would make me want to resign him. He showed that when hot, he can carry a team. He also showed, when not, he's an offensive detriment. Along with a lot of his pals, his offense in the playoff run and the playoffs themselves was non existent. I'd shoot for two years, 15 million. If he wants much more, we can say bye bye without too much regret.

2b - Flaherty/Andino/Roberts/Quintanilla/Schoop - Roberts is done. I love Brian but depending on him for anything is a pipe dream. It's time to move on. We know what we have in Andino. He's an above average defensive player who can't hit righties but can hit lefties a little bit. Personally, I find Flaherty intriguing. His numbers for this year are horrible but he showed enough pop at the end to give himself a chance to win this job next year. Maybe I'm delusional but the thought of a 20-25 hr hitting lefty 2b at Camden Yards is enough to give him a chance to win the job in spring training. Quintanilla showed himself to be a stop gap. I'd thank him for his services and wish him well.

Most people look at 2b as our primary need but I think we can live with Flaherty/Andino and Schoop in AAA. Before we reach for someone else's 2b, let's let Flaherty show us what he can do.

SS - Hardy - I've read many posts about how we should attempt to trade him and move Manny to ss. The only problem with that is that we would then open up a terrible hole at 3b. JJ suffers because Buck asked too much from him. He should be hitting 7th or 8th. He led the team in hitting into dps (21) and had horrible obp. He needs to be moved out of the 2nd hole, even if we don't add offense in the offseason. He is a great defensive player at the most important defensive position in baseball. Keep him at SS but move him down.

3b - Machado - He would have more value at SS, assuming he could be above average defensively. However, right now, we have a great defensive SS and Manny has proven to be a great defensive 3B. His offense is still developing. I say keep him at 3B. Eventually, we will have to make a decision on whether his offense is good enough for 3b and whether we should move Hardy. For next year, I say leave him at 3B and give him an entire year at the plate. It may even take two years because he is so young but we can bide our time on this one.

LF - McLouth - Nate would be my starter going into spring training. He provides above average defense and above average base running. Those advocating making him into a 4th OF must realize that the genie is out of the bottle. We aren't putting it back in. If he doesn't start for us, he's not going to be happy being a back up. He has earned a starting spot and we should let him go into spring training as a starter.

CF - Jones - I'd rather see Adam as a 5th hitter with a stud #3 or #4 in front of him. He may not be able to handle being the best player and leader of the team. He may be better off being the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. That being said, I'm glad we extended him and he's a stud in his prime. Not a perfect player but I don't see many perfect players out there.

RF - Nick - much more comfortable being a contributor then a team leader. Despite the success at leadoff, I don't think he's got the speed for that role. I would rather see McLouth leading off and Nick #2, moving Hardy deep down the lineup.

DH - Davis/Reimold/Betemit - Because of Nolan's lack of ability to stay on the field and his defensive struggles, I would use him as a right handed DH to go along with Chris Davis as the left handed DH. As of now, I would use Betemit as my bat off the bench against right handed pitching. Nolan's role could increase if McLouth returns to his recent norm or someone (inevitable) gets hurt.

Bottom line - We need another stud offensive player. Our offense totally disappeared against Tampa Bay (somewhat understandable) and the Yankees (not so much). The key here is that I believe we are good (or potentially good) at all positions and I would not target a position as much as I would an offensive player. Whoever the best offensive player available is, go get him. We have enough movable parts to adjust to the addition and no-one is so good that I would be worried about moving them or reducing their role.

[birdman66]

Pretty good assessment, but I think a lot of people have Jones really over-rated. He showed nothing in the ALDS, of course nobody else did either. They looked Listless. Mclouth was the best O player in the ALDS, IMHO.

[brianod]

Pretty good assessment, but I think a lot of people have Jones really over-rated. He showed nothing in the ALDS, of course nobody else did either. They looked Listless. Mclouth was the best O player in the ALDS, IMHO.

Without question Nate was the mvp offensively. That's why I say he's not going to be satisfied with a backup role. While everyone else sh*t the bed, he shined. I don't know if we can count on him to do that for an entire year but if we want him back, it's gotta be in a starting role imo.

[SteveO]

Without question Nate was the mvp offensively. That's why I say he's not going to be satisfied with a backup role. While everyone else sh*t the bed, he shined. I don't know if we can count on him to do that for an entire year but if we want him back, it's gotta be in a starting role imo.

So the guy had a good series....now he is a starter??? Does that make Saunders a TOR guy now?? I mean Joe has a better track record the past 2yrs than Nate and he seemed to shine also.... I dont see people wanting to hand him a starting role. What is it about LF on this team and romanticizing anyone who can get a hit out there. Reimold, Nate both have talent and both could be good but both are often injured and both have lacked consistent production over the past few years. You cant forget that simply cause a guy had a good series. I love Nate and hope he keeps it up, I also think that having McLouth as your starter and Reimold as his backup is a good way to end up with Steve Pearce in LF again by June. Sorry if thats mean but its those players ACTUAL histories that dictate that assumption.

[brianod]

So the guy had a good series....now he is a starter??? Does that make Saunders a TOR guy now?? I mean Joe has a better track record the past 2yrs than Nate and he seemed to shine also.... I dont see people wanting to hand him a starting role. What is it about LF on this team and romanticizing anyone who can get a hit out there. Reimold, Nate both have talent and both could be good but both are often injured and both have lacked consistent production over the past few years. You cant forget that simply cause a guy had a good series. I love Nate and hope he keeps it up, I also think that having McLouth as your starter and Reimold as his backup is a good way to end up with Steve Pearce in LF again by June. Sorry if thats mean but its those players ACTUAL histories that dictate that assumption.

McLouth didn't just have a good series, he had a good two months when the team desperately needed him

[SteveO]

McLouth didn't just have a good series, he had a good two months when the team desperately needed him

As I posted in another thread on the subject. Nolan Reimhold in the last three years has played in 142 of the 486 games he could have played in primarily due to injury. His stats are decent for the games he played

Nate Mclouth played in 255 of 486 games again missing many due to injury. In 2010 he had 242 AB and hit a whooping .190 with 6 hrs. In 2011 nit was 267 AB with a ..228 avg and 4 hr. I think the guy may be turning the corner but how much are you willing to gamble based on those stats?

So in summary the proposal is we should turn over LF to these two guys? Based on what? A 55 game sampling of McLouth's actual past 3 yrs numbers? Is that something that a team that is looking to challenge for a WS championship should do?

[Can_of_corn]

SS - Hardy - I've read many posts about how we should attempt to trade him and move Manny to ss. The only problem with that is that we would then open up a terrible hole at 3b. JJ suffers because Buck asked too much from him. He should be hitting 7th or 8th. He led the team in hitting into dps (21) and had horrible obp. He needs to be moved out of the 2nd hole, even if we don't add offense in the offseason. He is a great defensive player at the most important defensive position in baseball. Keep him at SS but move him down.

LF - McLouth - Nate would be my starter going into spring training. He provides above average defense and above average base running. Those advocating making him into a 4th OF must realize that the genie is out of the bottle. We aren't putting it back in. If he doesn't start for us, he's not going to be happy being a back up. He has earned a starting spot and we should let him go into spring training as a starter.

Where are you getting this Buck asked too much of him? Do you think Hardy would have had a less miserable year batting if he was hitting 8th? Why? He would have done less damage to the offense with few at bats but I have seen no evidence that the pressure of hitting #2 got to him. He sure doesn't change his approach based on lineup position, he proved that last season when he hit leadoff.

You are putting way too much weight on a small sample size with McLouth.

2010 620 OPS

2011 677 OPS

2012 Pit-385 OPS Norfolk-786 OPS (244/325/461) Balt-777

He had less then 250 PA and you think he has "earned" a starting spot.

[isestrex]

CF - Jones - I'd rather see Adam as a 5th hitter with a stud #3 or #4 in front of him. He may not be able to handle being the best player and leader of the team. He may be better off being the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. That being said, I'm glad we extended him and he's a stud in his prime. Not a perfect player but I don't see many perfect players out there.

The problem is, you just outlined in your summary all the primary players coming back including multiple DH options. Which means unless you think one of them can be a stud #3 or #4, he's what we got. I also disagree that he can't "handle" being the best player on the team. Try and remember the 2011 Adam Jones.... he's grown exponentially as a player and leader this past year and there's still room to grow. Adam has shown every year that he can grow as a player and as a leader. I'm excited for the level he takes his game to next year.

DH - Davis/Reimold/Betemit - Because of Nolan's lack of ability to stay on the field and his defensive struggles, I would use him as a right handed DH to go along with Chris Davis as the left handed DH. As of now, I would use Betemit as my bat off the bench against right handed pitching. Nolan's role could increase if McLouth returns to his recent norm or someone (inevitable) gets hurt.

We have ourselves a bit of a log jam. Davis has emerged as an every day hitter IMO. He's the one guy on this team that could replace Adam Jones as the primary bat in the lineup if he can prove this year wasn't a fluke. In limited time - 139 G and 562 AB - he had a slash line of .270/.326/.501/.827. He has 40 homer potential with solid numbers over the course of a full season. You don't platoon that.

Now here's where we have a bit of a log jam because Reimold has 30 homer potential if he could ever stay healthy himself. Since you can't platoon him with Davis, it makes the most sense to pair him with McLouth, but he won't want to sign if he's going to be competing for a job. It's going to be a tough decision. I have a feeling the Reimold/McLouth debate will be a major one on the OH all winter long.

Another angle is to start Davis over Reynolds at 1B freeing up the DH for Reimold but then it becomes a Reimold vs Reynolds debate and with both being RH, it doesn't make much sense.

Bottom line - We need another stud offensive player. Our offense totally disappeared against Tampa Bay (somewhat understandable) and the Yankees (not so much). The key here is that I believe we are good (or potentially good) at all positions and I would not target a position as much as I would an offensive player. Whoever the best offensive player available is, go get him. We have enough movable parts to adjust to the addition and no-one is so good that I would be worried about moving them or reducing their role.

Here's where I think you're slightly delusional. As I've already argued, we already have a full time DH as well as a crowded OF. The only positions available for replacement are 2B and potentially 1B if you decided to part ways with Reynolds. But that's about it. Your theory sounds ok on paper but I don't see any practical solutions sitting out there available.

Any move you make requires getting rid of a current piece. Who gets traded for this stud hitter (either to the team in return, or to another team to free up space)? Davis? Markakis? Reynolds? Simply not signing McLouth? You have to pick one...

[nate22]

If Davis just had a little more discipline at the plate, he'd be an absolute monster.

[Can_of_corn]

If Davis just had a little more discipline at the plate, he'd be an absolute monster.

And the Rangers wouldn't have traded him for Koji.

[Mondo Trasho]

And the Rangers wouldn't have traded him for Koji.

Eh, people make bad trades all the time. The Mariners gave us almost their entire farm system for an injury prone Erik Bedard.

We might have gotten lucky with Davis for Koji.

[Can_of_corn]

I see a lot of people not buying into Nate McLouth. That's fine. You can point to the statistics over the last two years. You can also look at the two years before that when he was a very strong starting CF for the Pirates. Did he just lose it in his age 29-30 years? Maybe. Could injuries have played a part? One question I have for you guys who aren't buying into McLouth. Did you watch him play over the last two months? Did you see the speed and basestealing ability? Did you see the bat speed? Did you see the plus defense in LF? Did you see the good AB's even when he didn't get hits? I'm not sure what we have in McLouth going forward. I do know that he looked very good. I know that he's still young (31). I know that he won't cost a lot in baseball terms. I know that we aren't going to get an elite bat for LF. Yeah, I say go with Nate McLouth as our LF for next year.

I would be interested in retaining his services, I just don't want to overpay or go into next season with him guaranteed the left field spot.

A couple of nice months plus a hot week in the playoffs do not magically make the last few years disappear.

[crawjo]

The key is that we need a #3 or #4 hitter to add to this lineup. A few years down the line that might be Machado but for now we need to bolster the offense. One possibility I would look into is finding a solid third baseman and then trading Hardy. If you can't find a good 3B, then you obviously keep Hardy and have Machado play there.

I'd be open to keeping McLouth but first we should see if there's an elite offensive player that we can add to play left.

I'm not sold for Reynolds at first. He was a good player in key situations this year but had long stretches where he disappeared entirely offensively. If there's an elite first baseman that can be acquired via trade or free agency I think you have to seriously consider it.

[Can_of_corn]

Who would you guarantee the LF spot, on the current roster?

Do you expect the Orioles to sign or trade for a LF?

My guess is they will hand the job to Reimold with McLouth and Hoes as other alternatives.

I don't have much faith in them bringing in free agents and I don't think that the O's have enough in the minors right now (aside from Schoop) to bring in someone in a trade.

[Roll Tide]

C - Wieters, Teagarden - Matt is great defensively and great calling a game. His offense is underrated. He ended up sixth in homeruns and 5th in rbis for all catchers. The downside is that he is slow as molasses and hits into a lot of dps. I would leave the question on an extension open for another year, I don't believe what he did this year would justify a huge contract and I don't think his agent would allow him to sign a reasonable extension at this time. Despite Teagarden's propensity to get unbelievable, clutch hits, I think we should look to do better. Taylor hit .158 with a .226 obp. Nuff said.

1b - Mark Reynolds - Ironically, it's his defense that would make me want to resign him. He showed that when hot, he can carry a team. He also showed, when not, he's an offensive detriment. Along with a lot of his pals, his offense in the playoff run and the playoffs themselves was non existent. I'd shoot for two years, 15 million. If he wants much more, we can say bye bye without too much regret.

2b - Flaherty/Andino/Roberts/Quintanilla/Schoop - Roberts is done. I love Brian but depending on him for anything is a pipe dream. It's time to move on. We know what we have in Andino. He's an above average defensive player who can't hit righties but can hit lefties a little bit. Personally, I find Flaherty intriguing. His numbers for this year are horrible but he showed enough pop at the end to give himself a chance to win this job next year. Maybe I'm delusional but the thought of a 20-25 hr hitting lefty 2b at Camden Yards is enough to give him a chance to win the job in spring training. Quintanilla showed himself to be a stop gap. I'd thank him for his services and wish him well.

Most people look at 2b as our primary need but I think we can live with Flaherty/Andino and Schoop in AAA. Before we reach for someone else's 2b, let's let Flaherty show us what he can do.

SS - Hardy - I've read many posts about how we should attempt to trade him and move Manny to ss. The only problem with that is that we would then open up a terrible hole at 3b. JJ suffers because Buck asked too much from him. He should be hitting 7th or 8th. He led the team in hitting into dps (21) and had horrible obp. He needs to be moved out of the 2nd hole, even if we don't add offense in the offseason. He is a great defensive player at the most important defensive position in baseball. Keep him at SS but move him down.

3b - Machado - He would have more value at SS, assuming he could be above average defensively. However, right now, we have a great defensive SS and Manny has proven to be a great defensive 3B. His offense is still developing. I say keep him at 3B. Eventually, we will have to make a decision on whether his offense is good enough for 3b and whether we should move Hardy. For next year, I say leave him at 3B and give him an entire year at the plate. It may even take two years because he is so young but we can bide our time on this one.

LF - McLouth - Nate would be my starter going into spring training. He provides above average defense and above average base running. Those advocating making him into a 4th OF must realize that the genie is out of the bottle. We aren't putting it back in. If he doesn't start for us, he's not going to be happy being a back up. He has earned a starting spot and we should let him go into spring training as a starter.

CF - Jones - I'd rather see Adam as a 5th hitter with a stud #3 or #4 in front of him. He may not be able to handle being the best player and leader of the team. He may be better off being the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. That being said, I'm glad we extended him and he's a stud in his prime. Not a perfect player but I don't see many perfect players out there.

RF - Nick - much more comfortable being a contributor then a team leader. Despite the success at leadoff, I don't think he's got the speed for that role. I would rather see McLouth leading off and Nick #2, moving Hardy deep down the lineup.

DH - Davis/Reimold/Betemit - Because of Nolan's lack of ability to stay on the field and his defensive struggles, I would use him as a right handed DH to go along with Chris Davis as the left handed DH. As of now, I would use Betemit as my bat off the bench against right handed pitching. Nolan's role could increase if McLouth returns to his recent norm or someone (inevitable) gets hurt.

Bottom line - We need another stud offensive player. Our offense totally disappeared against Tampa Bay (somewhat understandable) and the Yankees (not so much). The key here is that I believe we are good (or potentially good) at all positions and I would not target a position as much as I would an offensive player. Whoever the best offensive player available is, go get him. We have enough movable parts to adjust to the addition and no-one is so good that I would be worried about moving them or reducing their role.

Okay ...Get it But Who do you pick up and who do you dump? Sounds like you want to keep the roster pretty much in tact.