Where We Stand, My Take on Our Offense

[Roll Tide]

Does anyone else find it odd that Jones is "over-rated" still? He hit horridly in the last 6 games of the season yes its awful that this slump happens in the postseason but could it be that he had back soreness from carrying the team on his back offensively the other 162 games of the year? I mean the guy didnt even really have a slump throughout the regular season. Yes, he had the HR drought, but even then he hit .300+ It blows my mind that you can call him overrated after the kind of season that he had. His offensive stats have gone up relatively every year... Just a thought

In the playoffs Jones , Reynolds, Wieters,Thome, Davis and Hardy (except for the double) were almost automatic outs. I'm not saying you get rid of Jones or Wieters. But we need two new guys in the middle of the line up. I'd personally trade out one of Reynolds/Davis, & Thome.

[brianod]

Where are you getting this Buck asked too much of him? Do you think Hardy would have had a less miserable year batting if he was hitting 8th? Why? He would have done less damage to the offense with few at bats but I have seen no evidence that the pressure of hitting #2 got to him. He sure doesn't change his approach based on lineup position, he proved that last season when he hit leadoff.

You are putting way too much weight on a small sample size with McLouth.

2010 620 OPS

2011 677 OPS

2012 Pit-385 OPS Norfolk-786 OPS (244/325/461) Balt-777

He had less then 250 PA and you think he has "earned" a starting spot.

My thought is that Buck asked him to hit in a position he isn't suited for. He is an all or nothing type, not a #2 hitter.

[Frobby]

I see a lot of people not buying into Nate McLouth. That's fine. You can point to the statistics over the last two years. You can also look at the two years before that when he was a very strong starting CF for the Pirates. Did he just lose it in his age 29-30 years? Maybe. Could injuries have played a part? One question I have for you guys who aren't buying into McLouth. Did you watch him play over the last two months? Did you see the speed and basestealing ability? Did you see the bat speed? Did you see the plus defense in LF? Did you see the good AB's even when he didn't get hits? I'm not sure what we have in McLouth going forward. I do know that he looked very good. I know that he's still young (31). I know that he won't cost a lot in baseball terms. I know that we aren't going to get an elite bat for LF. Yeah, I say go with Nate McLouth as our LF for next year.

I believe McLouth can replicate over a full season approximately what we saw from him in the last two months of the season. If we are not going to re-sign him, then I want to sign someone who is clearly better. Otherwise, I'd rather take my chances with McLouth than sign some other LF who is going to put up a .775ish OPS.

[brianod]

Okay ...Get it But Who do you pick up and who do you dump? Sounds like you want to keep the roster pretty much in tact.

The last paragraph is my strategy. We need to go out and find an offensive stud. I don't know who's available but my point is that it doesn't really matter. If that stud is a 2b, problem solved. If that stud is a LF, we can ask McLouth to take a lesser role. If that person is a 3B, trade Hardy and move Manny. If that person is a 1b, don't resign Reynolds. We are good everywhere except possibly 2b but great nowhere but maybe cf. We don't have to go looking for a position and that should make the job easier. What I have learned by the last month is that we don't have enough offense as currently constructed.

[brianod]

I did answer your second question.

If his medicals are clean I would feel comfortable going forward with Reimold. Obviously if a reasonable trade or FA signing is there then you explore that. Given a choice between the teams current options (Reimold, Davis, McLouth, Avery and Hoes) I would go with a healthy Reimold.

I give the edge to McLouth over Reimold due to his defense and baserunning but if Nolan is healthy, it's a nice problem to have.

[brianod]

I think this is a spot on analysis, but I would, since I agree with most everything you said.

My only question is, since like me you think most positions are pretty well set, where do fit in a 'stud offensive player'? I am having a problem figuring this out as well. I tend to think second base is the most logical answer, since I think it's our biggest weakness, but no obvious and easy answers present themselves there. Second baseman aren't generally 'stud offensive players', though I would be a happy with maybe less than a stud, and more just a high OBP guy with some speed and maybe a bit of power - but these guys don't grow on trees either.

I don't know where we can get a stud offensive player. I doubt it will be through free agency. I don't think free agency is a valid option any more in the post steroid era. Guys want too much and are generally too old by the time they get to be free agents. I would be looking for a #3 hitter and I don't think position is all that important. I'd start exploring options if I was DD. Look for a building team that would be willing to trade their best player. If we can get a #3 hitter in their prime who also plays good defense, I would be willing to part with either Bundy or Gausman. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about a good offensive player, I'm talking about a great offensive player when I mention Bundy. I'm talking Cano with a good attitude, the 2013 version of Frank Robinson. If that animal doesn't exist we take our top guys off the table and see what is the best we can get.

[isestrex]

I don't know where we can get a stud offensive player. I doubt it will be through free agency. I don't think free agency is a valid option any more in the post steroid era. Guys want too much and are generally too old by the time they get to be free agents. I would be looking for a #3 hitter and I don't think position is all that important. I'd start exploring options if I was DD. Look for a building team that would be willing to trade their best player. If we can get a #3 hitter in their prime who also plays good defense, I would be willing to part with either Bundy or Gausman. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about a good offensive player, I'm talking about a great offensive player when I mention Bundy. I'm talking Cano with a good attitude, the 2013 version of Frank Robinson. If that animal doesn't exist we take our top guys off the table and see what is the best we can get.

Firstly, I don't think our need for a premier hitter is worth giving up Bundy or Gausman. Not a chance in hell. Maaaybe Mike Trout but there's no reason to discuss unicorns and tooth fairies.

Secondly, when you do these kind of "here's my plan" threads, you can't just make up players out of thin air (e.g. "we should go out and get an awesome player who's cheap and available!"). Who do you have in mind? What team is willing to trade "their best player"? Let's get some names on the table and discuss if they are possibilities. Otherwise, a plan to acquire a top bat is meaningless since we can't disappear into the lab and simply create one out of old batting practice balls and used Gino's burger wrappers.

[VeveJones007]

Go into next year with mostly the same roster. Continue to develop young players, reinforce the farm, and then be ready to upgrade via trades next season when something presents itself. As of right now, there don't appear to be great options for 2B and LF.

[crawjo]

To me if you are saying that you want to bring back Reynolds and McLouth then you are saying that you want to stand pat offensively, with the possible exception of second base. I don't think that's a wise course of action. I think we need to be better offensively next year, and I don't think we're likely to get improvement from any regular other than Machado. The others have all pretty much established who they are at this point. A Davis-Jones-Wieters middle of the order is not that imposing. I'm not sure what the answer is but something should be done. This lineup needs a hitter that strikes the fear of God into the opposition. We haven't had that since, arguably, Tejada in 2004.

Given that this is the case, I'd look very seriously into dealing Hardy. With his defense and power he should be desirable to a number of teams. Use him plus some young pitching to get a power-hitting outfielder or third baseman. Headley would be ideal but he'll cost a fortune now.

[brianod]

Firstly, I don't think our need for a premier hitter is worth giving up Bundy or Gausman. Not a chance in hell. Maaaybe Mike Trout but there's no reason to discuss unicorns and tooth fairies.

Secondly, when you do these kind of "here's my plan" threads, you can't just make up players out of thin air (e.g. "we should go out and get an awesome player who's cheap and available!"). Who do you have in mind? What team is willing to trade "their best player"? Let's get some names on the table and discuss if they are possibilities. Otherwise, a plan to acquire a top bat is meaningless since we can't disappear into the lab and simply create one out of old batting practice balls and used Gino's burger wrappers.

I am not providing specifics because I can't know who's available. I'm providing a general direction. For example, if Milwaukee would trade Braun for Bundy, I'd do it. If LA would trade Kemp for Bundy, I'd do it. It's not like we have all kind of teams admitting they would trade their best player, that's not exactly a positive thing to do. But, that's the kind of player I would be shooting for. What's Boston's direction? Is Pedroia available? The only way to determine that would be through discussion, a discussion which none of us are privy to. I would trade Matusz or Jake and a couple of prospect for Pedroia. I wouldn't trade Bundy. I'm simply saying shoot for the stars and see how high we can go. If we can trade for Frank Robinson in the 60's, we can certainly trade for a top player now. And, if we can trade for a top player, everyone should be on the table.

[wildcard]

McLouth 2012 with the O's

Vs righthanded pitching: 289/355/483/838

Vs Lefthanded pitching: 217/307/317/626

He should start the year as a platoon player in LF. The O's should tell him that if he hits like he did the last two months of the season he can get 450-480 at bats as the O's lefthanded hitting left fielder. Considing he has averaged 247 at bat per season over the last three seasons, he should jump at the opportunity if the money is right.

One year contract for 3- 3.5M with a club option.

Davis plays left vs lefthanded pitching with Reimold DHing versus lefthand pitching. Three is less chance of Reimold getting hurt DHing.

[Scalious]

I am not providing specifics because I can't know who's available. I'm providing a general direction. For example, if Milwaukee would trade Braun for Bundy, I'd do it. If LA would trade Kemp for Bundy, I'd do it. It's not like we have all kind of teams admitting they would trade their best player, that's not exactly a positive thing to do. But, that's the kind of player I would be shooting for. What's Boston's direction? Is Pedroia available? The only way to determine that would be through discussion, a discussion which none of us are privy to. I would trade Matusz or Jake and a couple of prospect for Pedroia. I wouldn't trade Bundy. I'm simply saying shoot for the stars and see how high we can go. If we can trade for Frank Robinson in the 60's, we can certainly trade for a top player now. And, if we can trade for a top player, everyone should be on the table.

Common sense says none of those would be availabe. I don't find it realistic to be talking about trading for players that are clearly franchise players to their teams. Like Braun/Kemp etc etc.. THem are pipe dreams. Bundy is super propspect, but he is still a unproven talent. So no one is giving up the Cornerstone of their franchise for them. Unless we are told they are avaible/Unhappy with said player(Justin Upton) or they want a salery dump (Adrian Gonzales in that boston trade). I'd rather stick to something else.

I do think we should shop around Jake/Matusz though. Just I dont really execpt someone nearly good as Pedrioa..

Also Brings up another point. If the Orioles were actually willing to eat Salery for the sake of a good Bat. We could get that Bat we want. But thats also something I'm not really expecting. But that would a be a good way to get a good bat... A player that isnt really preforming to the Contract they signed. But still a good player.

Hasn't been the MO of the Orioles though. So yeah...

[Scalious]

Way i look at it. We are Set at Catcher, Center Field, Right Field, Short Stop(Either stick with Hardy or Move Machado if we get a good 3B)

I'm really starting to Like Reynolds, and I'm Okay with Mclouth and Davis. But we should try to be the best Bat we can and not limit it to 1 spefic posistion. We should be willing to take that Bat, regardless if they are a First Basemen, Second Baseman, Third Basemen, or Outfielder who is willing to play Left...

[El Gordo]

Way i look at it. We are Set at Catcher, Center Field, Right Field, Short Stop(Either stick with Hardy or Move Machado if we get a good 3B)

I'm really starting to Like Reynolds, and I'm Okay with Mclouth and Davis. But we should try to be the best Bat we can and not limit it to 1 spefic posistion. We should be willing to take that Bat, regardless if they are a First Basemen, Second Baseman, Third Basemen, or Outfielder who is willing to play Left...

Why not trade Davis, Roberts(eat a big chunk of his salary) and Hardy to TB for Zobrist and Shields. Move Manny to SS play Zobrist at 2B and Flaherty/Andino at 3B? Sign Napoli and DH him with Betemit. Also let him back up Wieters.

[SteveO]

Why not trade Davis, Roberts(eat a big chunk of his salary) and Hardy to TB for Zobrist and Shields. Move Manny to SS play Zobrist at 2B and Flaherty/Andino at 3B? Sign Napoli and DH him with Betemit. Also let him back up Wieters.

I would make that trade in .00001 seconds flat. However I think there is just about zero chance that Tampa would take it. Why would any team want Brian Roberts no matter how much salary you eat? JJ they may have an interest in but for that team he is a rather expensive piece lol ...my guess is they would want someone less costly.

I do wish they would take that though cause Shields would be an awesome acquisition and Zobrist would fill a role nicely