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Would you consider acquiring a stud 3rd Baseman and sending Machado back to minors?


FanSince88

Willing to send Machado to minors/bench if O's sign stud 3B?  

127 members have voted

  1. 1. Willing to send Machado to minors/bench if O's sign stud 3B?

    • No way, Machado needs to start every day next year he is a guaranteed All-Star
      123
    • Yes, send machado to the bench or minors if you're able to sign a proven 3B
      4


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What? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? You know Manny's "rest of season" line is right on par with Mike Trout's 2011, right? Or that Manny had (by rWAR) the 13th-best age-19 season in MLB history in 2012, despite only playing 51 games? Manny was more valuable, per plate appearance, than Ken Griffey or Ty Cobb or Al Kaline or Mickey Mantle were at his age.

Could he OPS under .700 next year? Sure. But the odds are against it, and the odds are strong that he's going to get much better, very quickly.

Your thoughful analysis is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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Adam Jones first 51 G as an O age 22: .253, .303, .671 OPS, 2 HR 16 RBI

Nick Markakis age 22 : .229, .311, .637 OPS, 2 HR 13 RBI

Cal age 21:.234, .267 .641 OPS, 3HR 21 RBI

Manny age 20: .262, 294, .739 OPS, 7 HR 26 RBI

Sure send him back to the minors. His OBP is almost as bad as that Ripken kid.

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I don't think maintaining and adding to the existing team with FA's will make sense fiscally. I also don't think it's a good assumption that plugging a couple holes to the existing team will build on what we did this year. We should be using trades and free agency to improve the overall quality and potential of the team. I agree with you that we shoudn't be trading our good young prospects, but we should be looking to improve the team via trades. Since we're not trading young prospects that would involve trading players that somebody else might actually want. Because I've identified particular players as potential trade chips doesn't imply they should all be traded.

I see no reason you cant do both...it does not have to be an either or proposition. The reality is that if we expect this team to get back to the playoffs they are going to have to address these issues. The O's cannot expect to have the same record in 1 run games or the same extra inning record as they did this year. Those were historic numbers and repeating them would be great but highly unlikely. Combine that with the fact the Red Sox will likely reload to some degree and the Blue Jays should be better and I believe you have to look for ways to improve to either maintain or propel this team farther. I think eve Buck alluded to that with his Kool Aid statement.

I am fine with trades but also think while we have more trade chips this year than say last offseason, you have to be careful to keep some so that come the trade deadline if there is something you need, you can go and get it. Additionally you also have to be careful to not trade to many of those type guys as they are your depth and as we saw this year, depth is important.

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Adam Jones first 51 G as an O age 22: .253, .303, .671 OPS, 2 HR 16 RBI

Nick Markakis age 22 : .229, .311, .637 OPS, 2 HR 13 RBI

Cal age 21:.234, .267 .641 OPS, 3HR 21 RBI

Manny age 20: .262, 294, .739 OPS, 7 HR 26 RBI

Sure send him back to the minors. His OBP is almost as bad as that Ripken kid.

LMAO very good!

Anyone talking about sending Machado to the minors has lost their mind. The kid has more than proven he belongs. Will there be a learning curve....yes. Should we expect ups and downs over a full season...yes. That said Machado is a stud player, scouts agree, I agree and his performance on the field agrees.

I will add that talking about putting him at 2B also makes no sense at all. He is not a 2B and all that does is create a hole at 3B that you likely fill with the same guys who play at 2nd anyway lol. There are a handful of "Stud" 3B. We are not trading for Headley cause if we did likely it would involve either Machado or Bundy and there is ZERO chance that happens.

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I see no reason you can't do both...it does not have to be an either or proposition. .

Here is what I said in my post.

We should be using trades and free agency to improve the overall quality and potential of the team.

How is that an either or proposition?

The reality is that if we expect this team to get back to the playoffs they are going to have to address these issues. The O's cannot expect to have the same record in 1 run games or the same extra inning record as they did this year. Those were historic numbers and repeating them would be great but highly unlikely. Combine that with the fact the Red Sox will likely reload to some degree and the Blue Jays should be better and I believe you have to look for ways to improve to either maintain or propel this team farther. I think eve Buck alluded to that with his Kool Aid statement.

I am fine with trades but also think while we have more trade chips this year than say last offseason, you have to be careful to keep some so that come the trade deadline if there is something you need, you can go and get it. Additionally you also have to be careful to not trade to many of those type guys as they are your depth and as we saw this year, depth is important

I'm really not seeing anything here that I disagree with, in fact that what you're saying here was my basic point to begin with. I pointed out specific players that I thought would be good potential trade chips. I'm guessing you disagree with some or all of them. I don't know. I think we agree we're not going get anything by trading crap and we agree that we don't want to trade the good young talent we already have.

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Here is what I said in my post.

How is that an either or proposition?

I'm really not seeing anything here that I disagree with, in fact that what you're saying here was my basic point to begin with. I pointed out specific players that I thought would be good potential trade chips. I'm guessing you disagree with some or all of them. I don't know. I think we agree we're not going get anything by trading crap and we agree that we don't want to trade the good young talent we already have.

Sorry my mistake. Was kinda answering you but also had some of the other posts I read in my brain and bled over lol if that makes sense. Was making points in response to you that had nothing to do with what you said...my bad.

Think we basically see eye to eye on this also. I could be ok with trading even say Machado (gulp) if the it were the right package... say Nats 3b Jordan Zimmerman and Steven Strasburgh...not gonna happen but you know what I mean. Any player can be had if you pay enough. I have faith based on what I have seen from DD and Buck that they will make smart and precise moves be it through trade or FA signings. In my opinion they earned that with their brilliant moves last off season and during the season that turned this team around.

I will say though that it is amazing to be able to sit here as the off season approaches and think up little scenarios were we get those couple pieces that will help this team take the next step, been a long time since the hot stove baseball mattered as much as does now :)

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To me, there is no validity to cherry-picking out Machado's first four games. He had his ups and downs, like any player, and that happened to be an up. He had a .742 OPS in September and a .739 overall. I don't see any reason to think he would be more likely to be below that than above that next year. I'm definitely betting on the over, considering the steep learning curve Machado had jumping directly from AA to the majors. Plus, I've seen the guy, and I'm pretty sure I know what I saw.

By the way, it's funny that FanSince88 brought up people "ready to annoint Manny as the next Brooks or Ripken." Ripken had an OPS well under .650 in his first 200 PA, despite having played a lot of AAA ball and being a year older than Manny when he debuted. And yet, after his first 200 PA (40 in 1981, 160 in 1982) he crushed the ball to the tune of an .843 OPS in the rest of his 1982 campaign to win the rookie of the year.

Do I expect .843 from Manny next year? No, but .800 won't shock me at all.

So his first four games had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was a completely unexpected callup playing one of the worst teams in the AL? Somehow that strikes me as pretty significant, don't know about you.

What if his name wasn't Manny Machado, he was just some random minor league guy the O's brought up for defense who put up the same post-KC series 2012 numbers? Would you be so ready to put all your faith in him being an all-star next season?

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So his first four games had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was a completely unexpected callup playing one of the worst teams in the AL? Somehow that strikes me as pretty significant, don't know about you.

What if his name wasn't Manny Machado, he was just some random minor league guy the O's brought up for defense who put up the same post-KC series 2012 numbers? Would you be so ready to put all your faith in him being an all-star next season?

Machado has a resume. He was a top 10 prospect for a reason. Of course you look at his overall body of work.

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I have been saying this for a while...

Trade for Headley (3B)

Manny to SS

Hardy to 2B

Last time I proposed this ppl said you dont move a gold glove SS. Well in my argument, Hardy only has 2 yrs left on his contract and Manny is the future at SS. So I could make the argument you dont keep your future cornerstone SS out of position for 2 1/2 yrs. Hardy has the range to play 2B, Manny does not. I would love to be able to plaug Headley into the middle of the lineup

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I have been saying this for a while...

Trade for Headley (3B)

Manny to SS

Hardy to 2B

Last time I proposed this ppl said you dont move a gold glove SS. Well in my argument, Hardy only has 2 yrs left on his contract and Manny is the future at SS. So I could make the argument you dont keep your future cornerstone SS out of position for 2 1/2 yrs. Hardy has the range to play 2B, Manny does not. I would love to be able to plaug Headley into the middle of the lineup

How easy will it be to get Headley? A lot harder than it was in July, I can tell you that...

What pieces to you propose will get the job done?

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I have been saying this for a while...

Trade for Headley (3B)

Manny to SS

Hardy to 2B

Last time I proposed this ppl said you dont move a gold glove SS. Well in my argument, Hardy only has 2 yrs left on his contract and Manny is the future at SS. So I could make the argument you dont keep your future cornerstone SS out of position for 2 1/2 yrs. Hardy has the range to play 2B, Manny does not. I would love to be able to plaug Headley into the middle of the lineup

Please understand that any trade that had been rumored for Headley previous to him putting up Babe Ruth numbers after the deadline is no longer even on the table. Start with Machado or Bundy and Schoop. Seriously. That is what it would take. Even if it doesn't seem fair. He is not going to be an Oriole, until he is a FA. And I don't think he will be traded.

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