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ESPN Trade Proposal: Hardy to Cards for RHP Joe Kelly and RHP Maikel Cleto


Migrant Redbird

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These types of deals make little sense for the O's. We're not rebuilding. If we're trading Hardy it's likely for ML talent that can fill another hole (ie-2b), not MiL fodder.

Agreed. If we were looking to move Hardy, I'd be looking for a second or third baseman that was ready to start in 2013.

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Hardy should (and will) stay at SS for your Baltimore Orioles...Besides the hole at 3B (as others have already said), let's remember Manny - I love the kid - is NO sure thing either....he may (albeit unlikely) regress, etc.

This is similar to those who aren't sure about resigning McLouth...that "chance" of regression...

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Hardy should (and will) stay at SS for your Baltimore Orioles...Besides the hole at 3B (as others have already said), let's remember Manny - I love the kid - is NO sure thing either....he may (albeit unlikely) regress, etc.

This is similar to those who aren't sure about resigning McLouth...that "chance" of regression...

Machado and McLouth do not have a "similar" chance at regression.

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They have an answer at third, Schoop. He profiles better there then at second.

You think a contending team should move one of their key players because they have a 20 year old who hasn't proven himself at AA or the AFL yet? I think Schoop is a great prospect as well but he isn't Machado and the O's should be patient with him. He certainly shouldn't be the reason they trade JJ and move Manny to SS.

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We've got okay starting pitching depth, especially with the right handers...if we trade a key player for a pitcher they better be an ace. Also, no need to throw in a crappy right handed reliever in a bullpen full of not only mostly right handers but good pitchers. Hardy may have been a disappointment offensively but I will take his defense over Kelly and Cleto any day.

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Cardinals are an interesting match for a Hardy trade, but there's no urgency, and both pitchers are C/C+ Steve Johnson-types: their big asset is the fact that they're MLB-ready, not that they have a high ceiling. Orioles have plenty of mediocre-to-decent pitching depth right now and don't need guys like Kelly or Cleto.

If we're trading Hardy to the Cards, the main guy coming back needs to be 2B Kolten Wong, a top rated guy who just hit .287/.348/.405 in AA as a 21 year old. That makes the long-term infield plan 3B Schoop, SS Machado, 2B Wong.

If the Cards offer Wong + a lottery ticket low-A pitcher (Kyle Simon-type) for Hardy, O's would have to seriously consider it.

All that said, I don't think the O's are all that interested in trading Hardy.

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That's a big risk IMO to go into a season where we're supposed to contend....Machado at SS with 40 games under his belt and a rookie 3B who has never played...

We have a Gold Glove SS on a contender...let's upgrade elsewhere.

Agreed, we could always upgrade the pitching but it would seem unwise to do so at the expense of our infield. If Reynolds doesn't return, we would have Davis, Andino/Flaherty, Machado, and Schoop. That might work out fine, but it's asking for trouble.

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You think a contending team should move one of their key players because they have a 20 year old who hasn't proven himself at AA or the AFL yet? I think Schoop is a great prospect as well but he isn't Machado and the O's should be patient with him. He certainly shouldn't be the reason they trade JJ and move Manny to SS.

You wouldn't be moving Hardy for Schoop, you would be moving him for Machado. Schoop has proven himself in the AFL btw (even thought the AFL doesn't mean much). Machado is under team control for six years, it makes sense to maximize his value to the team for those six years.

Then why is he playing 2nd in minors?

He is also playing SS in the minors and I have yet to see a scout or expert predict he will play SS in the majors. They put players where their ceiling is in the minors, knowing that they can transition to an easier position later. Schoop is a big kid and looks like he will outgrow the MI.

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Let me give a reason, which seems to have been ignored, why I think trading Hardy is an absolutely terrible idea.

Machado at SS Minors 2012: 22 errors/308 attempts = .954 fielding percentage....he NEVER posted a fld% better than .958 in the minors.

Machado at 3B MLB 2012 5errors /102 attempts = .967

What am I missing here? I realize it is incongruent with normalcy that his defense would improve at 3B, but with the current information we have, Machado should stay there.

You could cry small-sample-size, but I would counter: There might be a SSS to make a suggestion that he is better at 3B, but is there ANY "sample" whatsoever to suggest the opposite? Certainly not gamble-worthy for the O's. Our current SS just had a Gold Glove season at that position, and we want to put a young kid whose career fielding % at SS is .956? That is a TERRIBLE idea.

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Let me give a reason, which seems to have been ignored, why I think trading Hardy is an absolutely terrible idea.

Machado at SS Minors 2012: 22 errors/308 attempts = .954 fielding percentage....he NEVER posted a fld% better than .958 in the minors.

Machado at 3B MLB 2012 5errors /102 attempts = .967

What am I missing here? I realize it is incongruent with normalcy that his defense would improve at 3B, but with the current information we have, Machado should stay there.

You could cry small-sample-size, but I would counter: There might be a SSS to make a suggestion that he is better at 3B, but is there ANY "sample" whatsoever to suggest the opposite? Certainly not gamble-worthy for the O's. Our current SS just had a Gold Glove season at that position, and we want to put a young kid whose career fielding % at SS is .956? That is a TERRIBLE idea.

Fielding percentage in the minors is a terrible metric to quote.

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We'll agree to disagree

I don't think you can agree to disagree on facts.

As for Headley for Arrieta and 2 others. Don't know the others' date=' but I believe one is a high ceiling player at Delmarva. Told it was way too much.[/quote']

https://twitter.com/danconnollysun/status/230061678753107968

In other words, Arrieta and Delmonico or Bridwell, plus another player. Definitely more than Arrieta and Matusz.

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I don't think you can agree to disagree on facts.

https://twitter.com/danconnollysun/status/230061678753107968

In other words, Arrieta and Delmonico or Bridwell, plus another player. Definitely more than Arrieta and Matusz.

I know what I read....just not going to search for the article for an hour....I believe it was Arrieta and Matusz and a low level MiL

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