ESPN Trade Proposal: Hardy to Cards for RHP Joe Kelly and RHP Maikel Cleto

[Can_of_corn]

Now you've really lost me.

My hope is that they build a team and an organization that will allow the O's to compete on a yearly basis.

[Annie]

Trade Hardy and move Manny to SS?

I'm not opposed to a Hardy trade but, as many have already pointed out, it would leave a gaping hole at 3rd and I don't see anyone to realistically fill it. Schoop IMO needs a bit more "percolating" time...don't think bringing Schoop up should be the reason we boot Hardy and move Machado.

I just don't see the sense in trading Hardy just yet. IF we did...I'd like to see an Ace in our pitching rotation.

I've heard nothing from Dan or Buck that suggests that they are interested in trading Hardy and moving Machado around. that said, anything can happen. I'm super interested to see what happens this winter.

[xKHx]

No you just a had team make it to the playoffs you improve the team not tear it down a bit to hope for better days like C.o.c is suggesting.

[DrungoHazewood]

Who said the goal was making the team better for next year?

I would assume that's the plan ahead, now that they've established a decent baseline. I'd hope we're beyond they point where the goal is possibly competing in '14 or '15. If I were Duquette I'd be in win-now mode.

[Brendan25]

My hope is that they build a team and an organization that will allow the O's to compete on a yearly basis.

Okay so what moves that include trading Hardy makes them more competitive next year?

[DrungoHazewood]

My hope is that they build a team and an organization that will allow the O's to compete on a yearly basis.

And isn't one of the better paths for this organization to compete annually to win again in '13? That should lead to higher and higher revenues, allowing the team to both acquire MLB talent as well as shore up the minor league and amateur acquisition pipelines.

[Can_of_corn]

I would assume that's the plan ahead, now that they've established a decent baseline. I'd hope we're beyond they point where the goal is possibly competing in '14 or '15. If I were Duquette I'd be in win-now mode.

Okay so what moves that include trading Hardy makes them more competitive next year?

And isn't one of the better paths for this organization to compete annually to win again in '13? That should lead to higher and higher revenues, allowing the team to both acquire MLB talent as well as shore up the minor league and amateur acquisition pipelines.

By no means am I advocating punting on next season. I just firmly believe that Machado's long term home should be at shortstop and that if he is kept at third then he will stay at third.

I do not think that a scenario where Hardy is traded for value and Machado moves to SS will doom the team and will strengthen it over the long run.

I certainly would not give Hardy away like the Twins did.

[Brendan25]

By no means am I advocating punting on next season. I just firmly believe that Machado's long term home should be at shortstop and that if he is kept at third then he will stay at third.

I do not think that a scenario where Hardy is traded for value and Machado moves to SS will doom the team and will strengthen it over the long run.

I certainly would not give Hardy away like the Twins did.

Everything that you are saying sounds good, but what move that makes sense do the Orioles make to trade Hardy away and put Machado at short? Who do they trade him to? Who is our 3B next year? I'm not willing to make our team worse next year (which with no answers you are doing) for the CHANCE that moving Machado to short makes us better long term.

[sfosfan]

Actually, the scouting reports on Schoop all say they expect he'll develop power. Just today I read something here on the Hangout quoting a scout saying Schoop will develop not just power, but "easy power", whatever that means (I assume his natural swing has the ball jumping out of the park).

When I think of "easy power", Chris Davis first comes to mind. I like Schoop, but he's no Chris Davis.

[Can_of_corn]

Everything that you are saying sounds good, but what move that makes sense do the Orioles make to trade Hardy away and put Machado at short? Who do they trade him to? Who is our 3B next year? I'm not willing to make our team worse next year (which with no answers you are doing) for the CHANCE that moving Machado to short makes us better long term.

I don't play the fake GM game, so I won't give you a trade. I am just saying that if good value presents itself that moving Hardy should be an option to be considered. I am also rather bullish on Schoop and think that he can help the MLB team sometime this season.

It may be that the timing on a Hardy move will be better during the season or even next offseason.

[Brendan25]

I don't play the fake GM game, so I won't give you a trade. I am just saying that if good value presents itself that moving Hardy should be an option to be considered. I am also rather bullish on Schoop and think that he can help the MLB team sometime this season.

It may be that the timing on a Hardy move will be better during the season or even next offseason.

Fair enough. I just think it's a soft comment to make. That if fair value presents itself for Hardy we should trade him. If "fair value" presents itself for any player we should consider trading them. There is a "fair value" price for even guys like Jones and Wieters. The price is higher, but there is a value.

[AZOriole]

Well, the last I heard he was workiing at ss, so you may be on to something. Like somebody else said, it's nice to have options. Not sure why we'd want to dscount the idea of dealing Hardy as one of those options.

Not sure if it means much, considering it was an AZ Fall League game, but Schoop was playing 3B when I went last week. Again, take it for what it's worth.

[Can_of_corn]

Fair enough. I just think it's a soft comment to make. That if fair value presents itself for Hardy we should trade him. If "fair value" presents itself for any player we should consider trading them. There is a "fair value" price for even guys like Jones and Wieters. The price is higher, but there is a value.

A lot of folks here think Hardy should be untouchable.

It would take more then "fair value" before I would trade someone like Wieters. Hardy would be on my "like to trade" list as opposed to the "I'd listen" list or the "This better be worth my time" list.

[Brendan25]

A lot of folks here think Hardy should be untouchable.

It would take more then "fair value" before I would trade someone like Wieters. Hardy would be on my "like to trade" list as opposed to the "I'd listen" list or the "This better be worth my time" list.

I don't think anyone is untouchable. I just need to know the whole plan before I agree to trade Hardy. I know this is a message board and we are just discussing things, but the whole "lets trade Hardy and move Machado to SS" thing that I've heard since the season ended is just half of the story of that move.

Hardy gets traded to the Cardinals. You aren't going to see me pissed that he is traded. You will see me pissed if Schoop is our starting 3B next year and we got two AA average prospects for Hardy.

[Ruzious]

I don't play the fake GM game, so I won't give you a trade. I am just saying that if good value presents itself that moving Hardy should be an option to be considered. I am also rather bullish on Schoop and think that he can help the MLB team sometime this season.

It may be that the timing on a Hardy move will be better during the season or even next offseason.

Yeah, a lot of folks here seem to think it's somehow physically impossible to find a 3Bman if the O's trade Hardy and move Machado to SS. I don't know exactly who is available, but I'm sure there are ways to acquire a 3rd baseman. And I do know that the O's offensive production at 2nd, SS, and 3B wasn't good last year, so insisting so strongly (as several here have) that they stay the course next season with what they had last season sounds exceedingly stubborn - for the short-term, long-term, medium-turn, turnturnterm, and any other term.