Should the Orioles trade some of their pitching this off season?

[Dark Helmet]

Thats why the majority of contracts today are back loaded.

A lot of contracts are backloaded, to offset current salary commitments, and to spread them out.

[Dark Helmet]

I know that. My point was that someone will overpay for who he is.

I get that. But my point is, id rather overpay a little money wise, for less years.

[Roll Tide]

Players usually don't like agreeing ot those deals because it's easier to cut them at the end of the contract.

Ortiz just agreed to a 2 year 26 million deal ....Short deal ..But it does happen

Ortiz gets a $1 million signing bonus payable on Jan. 15 and salaries of $14 million next season and $11 million in 2014.

[DrungoHazewood]

Im not sure who, or if anyone would agree on this contract. But, the best contract to offer Hamilton, would be a frontloaded deal. Something like 30,30,25,25,20 with a 20 mil vesting option for plate app or a 20 mil team option with a 5 mil buyout. Thats at worst 5 years and 135 guaranteed and couldd be 6/150. I think thats a fair deal.

Why would you pay a 32-year-old to be a 6, 6, 5, 5, 4 win player when he's both a high-risk player, and an injury prone player, and he's only been worth 5+ wins twice in his whole career?

Players usually don't like agreeing ot those deals because it's easier to cut them at the end of the contract.

Thats why the majority of contracts today are back loaded.

What? Contracts are backloaded because it makes the players harder to cut? Huh? You guys can't be serious.

There are several reasons why contracts are backloaded. The time value of money. Inflation. It's easier to justify future commitments than current commitments. The idea that a good player will push a team into new (mostly postseason) revenue streams in the future. The fact that most GMs realize they won't be around for the consequences of paying a guy $25M in years 5, 6, 7 when he's 38 years old. The "players want it because it's hard to cut them" can't be in the top 10 reasons contracts are structured that way.

[Mizerooskie]

Why would you pay a 32-year-old to be a 6, 6, 5, 5, 4 win player when he's both a high-risk player, and an injury prone player, and he's only been worth 5+ wins twice in his whole career?

Because you want to make your team better, and aren't particularly concerned about the contract matching up with what the statisticians say it should be?

I get that you don't want to overpay for a player based on his performance, but the Free Agent market is inflated and sometimes you have to overpay to get a desired player.

[DrungoHazewood]

Because you want to make your team better, and aren't particularly concerned about the contract matching up with what the statisticians say it should be?

I get that you don't want to overpay for a player based on his performance, but the Free Agent market is inflated and sometimes you have to overpay to get a desired player.

I'm sure that's what the Phillies said about Ryan Howard. Or the Jays about Vernon Wells. Or...well... I could go on for hours. Imagine how many playoff games the Angels might have won if they hadn't been paying Vernon Wells $20M to do Endy Chavez' job, and instead used that money on something productive.

[Dark Helmet]

Why would you pay a 32-year-old to be a 6, 6, 5, 5, 4 win player when he's both a high-risk player, and an injury prone player, and he's only been worth 5+ wins twice in his whole career?

Like I said earlier, id rather overpay in annual salary if possible, to try and cut down the gauranteed years. Another reason, is because I personally would like a legit bat. Im tired of waiting for the what-if's of Reimold, and the dumpster diving in guys pike McLouth and Chavez. I actually like McLouth, but I like Hamilton better. Just personal preference.

[Dark Helmet]

I'm sure that's what the Phillies said about Ryan Howard. Or the Jays about Vernon Wells. Or...well... I could go on for hours. Imagine how many playoff games the Angels might have won if they hadn't been paying Vernon Wells $20M to do Endy Chavez' job, and instead used that money on something productive.

The Giants having a couple 100+ million contracts, hasnt hurt them. WS titles 2 of the last 3 years. Im not saying have a 20+ mil a year guy at every position. But its time to spend a little on a star player, that fills a glaring hole. Again, just my opinion. WAR or whatever other stat, used to disprove that rationale, wont change my mind on that.

[weams]

There are several reasons why contracts are backloaded. The time value of money. Inflation. It's easier to justify future commitments than current commitments. The idea that a good player will push a team into new (mostly postseason) revenue streams in the future. The fact that most GMs realize they won't be around for the consequences of paying a guy $25M in years 5, 6, 7 when he's 38 years old. The "players want it because it's hard to cut them" can't be in the top 10 reasons contracts are structured that way.

Can this be the final discussion of this subject

[weams]

The Giants having a couple 100+ million contracts, hasnt hurt them. WS titles 2 of the last 3 years. Im not saying have a 20+ mil a year guy at every position. But its time to spend a little on a star player, that fills a glaring hole. Again, just my opinion. WAR or whatever other stat, used to disprove that rationale, wont change my mind on that.

Actually, effective cheap home grown or fould pitching talent has a bit more to do with SF. Also, using a PED inflated guy for a good part of the season never hurt.

[Dark Helmet]

Actually, effective cheap home grown or fould pitching talent has a bit more to do with SF. Also, using a PED inflated guy for a good part of the season never hurt.

Cheap pitching? Cain just signed a 112 mil extension. Zitos coming off 100+ mil deal. Lincecum made 18 mil in 2012. Those three combined made 52 mil in 2012. Thats 65% of the Orioles 2012 payroll.

And not having Melky in the playoffs, sure didnt hurt them.

[DrungoHazewood]

The Giants having a couple 100+ million contracts, hasnt hurt them. WS titles 2 of the last 3 years. Im not saying have a 20+ mil a year guy at every position. But its time to spend a little on a star player, that fills a glaring hole. Again, just my opinion. WAR or whatever other stat, used to disprove that rationale, wont change my mind on that.

Hasn't hurt them? They won the World Series with a payroll smaller than the Rays', just with $50M worth of junk piled on top of it. Imagine how good the Giants might have been if they'd been more than 50% efficient with their payroll. They literally threw away more money than some teams spent on total payroll. They won despite being ridiculously, almost obscenely inefficient.

My Lord, if you gave the O's the cash that the Giants took out to the backyard and set fire to they could have signed the entire Dominican Republic and had enough left over to resign Wieters to a 10-year extension.

[DrungoHazewood]

And not having Melky in the playoffs, sure didnt hurt them.

I think your definitions are different than mine. The Giants just won the Indy 500 despite the fact their car had a giant shipping crate strapped to the top with duct tape. Yea it worked, but it's like having a plan for your life based on lottery tickets and Ponzi schemes. You really don't want your favorite team using the Giants as a model. That's almost as crazy as suggesting you follow the O's plan and assume you're going to win every extra inning game.

[Dark Helmet]

Hasn't hurt them? They won the World Series with a payroll smaller than the Rays', just with $50M worth of junk piled on top of it. Imagine how good the Giants might have been if they'd been more than 50% efficient with their payroll. They literally threw away more money than some teams spent on total payroll. They won despite being ridiculously, almost obscenely inefficient.

My Lord, if you gave the O's the cash that the Giants took out to the backyard and set fire to they could have signed the entire Dominican Republic and had enough left over to resign Wieters to a 10-year extension.

Your not wrong at all. But, somehow they still managed to win what every team wants, two out of three years. Most of it is playing in a weak division, then getting hot at the right time. But hey, it got them two WS.

[Dark Helmet]

I think your definitions are different than mine. The Giants just won the Indy 500 despite the fact their car had a giant shipping crate strapped to the top with duct tape. Yea it worked, but it's like having a plan for your life based on lottery tickets and Ponzi schemes. You really don't want your favorite team using the Giants as a model. That's almost as crazy as suggesting you follow the O's plan and assume you're going to win every extra inning game.

Well maybe, but they still won the WS without Melky. I dont want the O's to model the Giants. But, is it unreadonable to be like the Braves? Grow the arms, get a good core AND spend some money. Im all about saving money. But, I also dont go out dumpster diving. We dont eat out a ton, but when we do, we want to go to a nice resteraunt. I want the same for the O's. Theyre usually not a big player in FA. But when they do play, I want a nice steak, not hamburger.