Save Mark Reynolds

[TradeAngelos]

Brendan and TAngelos,

You guys are right. We can't let reynolds leave without upgrading that position and i don't know anyone who is out there. Any suggestions? (keep Mark otherwise)

There isn't anyone out there, that is the point.

No idea why they seem to be casting Reynolds aside, like there is some other guy out there with 40HR power and great 1b defense for 2/16?? Is he perfect? Of course not, but unless you are going to throw 4/50 or whatever at LaRoche there aren't any comparable options on the market.

At this point though I am pretty much resigned to sitting back and watching what they do, no point in beating any more horses to death. I pray to God they prove me wrong, but it seems like every little nugget we hear about involves going cheap.....again.

If that happens after the season we just had, I think I will be pretty much done with them. I will go from die hard to casual. I will go from buying a big season ticket package, to refusing to spend a dime on them. If they don't spend on quality payers now they never will.

[CA-ORIOLE]

There isn't anyone out there, that is the point.

No idea why they seem to be casting Reynolds aside, like there is some other guy out there with 40HR power and great 1b defense for 2/16?? Is he perfect? Of course not, but unless you are going to throw 4/50 or whatever at LaRoche there aren't any comparable options on the market.

At this point though I am pretty much resigned to sitting back and watching what they do, no point in beating any more horses to death. I pray to God they prove me wrong, but it seems like every little nugget we hear about involves going cheap.....again..

If you put Davis at first there are lots of options, and we are not only limited to Free Agency.

If that happens after the season we just had, I think I will be pretty much done with them. I will go from die hard to casual. I will go from buying a big season ticket package, to refusing to spend a dime on them. If they don't spend on quality payers now they never will

Over Mark Reynolds? That seems insane, but to each his own I guess. Why not wait and see how it works out at least?

[TradeAngelos]

If you put Davis at first there are lots of options, and we are not only limited to Free Agency.

Over Mark Reynolds? That seems insane, but to each his own I guess. Why not wait and see who it works out at least?

I said I was going to sit back and see what happened.

It isn't just about losing Reynolds, it is about losing a high ceiling guy for relative peanuts and taking 35HR out of the lineup without replacing it. That will be flat out inexcusable, and if you can give me a reason why it would be acceptable I am all ears.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It isn't just about losing Reynolds, it is about losing a high ceiling guy for relative peanuts and taking 35HR out of the lineup without replacing it. That will be flat out inexcusable, and if you can give me a reason why it would be acceptable I am all ears.

Reynold's isn't a "high ceiling guy". For his career he's a below average player. HR's are nice but they aren't everything considering Reynolds overall game and weaknesses. There are a number of ways the team can be improved without him.

I said I was going to sit back and see what happened.

Your point was that you were giving up if we didn't keep Reynolds. Not exactly an open mind.

[TradeAngelos]

Reynold's isn't a "high ceiling guy". For his career he's a below average player. HR's are nice but they aren't everything considering Reynolds overall game and weaknesses. There are a number of ways the team can be improved without him.

Your point was that you were giving up if we didn't keep Reynolds. Not exactly an open mind.

So this is a better team without Reynolds and no upgrade to fill his role? Explain that one to me. Oh let me guess, Andino, Reimold, and 3 other also rans will contribute what Reynolds will in 2013.

And yes I call a guy who plays great defense at first with the ability to crank out 40HR and a .800 OPS high ceiling, especially when you consider his cost.

And once again, I said losing Reynolds AND not replacing him with anyone comparable would be unacceptable. And it is.

[Thyrl]

Mark Reynolds makes less outs per plate appearance than any Oriole not named Markakis and is the only 40 HR threat on the club. I struggle to understand why some are so anxious to see him go.

Perhaps if the Orioles were open to moving him to a place in the lineup where he'd be protected by real hitters he'd see more fastballs and more strikes (like the 2-hole). Hitting him 7th with Andino, Chavez etc behind him in the order is just an invitation to opposing pitchers to never throw him anything worth hitting.

[CA-ORIOLE]

So this is a better team without Reynolds and no upgrade to fill his role? Explain that one to me. Oh let me guess, Andino, Reimold, and 3 other also rans will contribute what Reynolds will in 2013.

And yes I call a guy who plays great defense at first with the ability to crank out 40HR and a .800 OPS high ceiling, especially when you consider his cost.

And once again, I said losing Reynolds AND not replacing him with anyone comparable would be unacceptable. And it is.

So now a player at acceptable cost is high ceiling? Reynolds projects as average at first base in a slightly optimistic scenario and slightly above average in a very optimistic scenario. His career wRC+ is 109, he's been slighly above and below that mark for the most part. Sorry, not buying the hype that Reynolds has turned himself into another Keith Hernandez at first base. Yes, I do think we can probably replace him at lesser cost.

I've defended Reynolds many times in the past on here, but quite frankly I am ready to move on from him if that's what the team feels they need to do. Maybe that means Butler at DH and Davis at first. Maybe the means Davis at first and a younger player with higher upside in the OF or first base. Maybe that means Willingham at DH. Maybe the means Davis at first and a platoon player at lower cost replacing Reynolds with the savings spent somewhere else. Who knows.

Reynolds just ain't that good. Quite frankly, I'm more worried about his downside. Based on what I saw last year I've got confidence that Duquette will improve the team.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Perhaps if the Orioles were open to moving him to a place in the lineup where he'd be protected by real hitters he'd see more fastballs and more strikes (like the 2-hole). Hitting him 7th with Andino, Chavez etc behind him in the order is just an invitation to opposing pitchers to never throw him anything worth hitting.

More protection mumbo jumbo. Reynolds got lowered in the batting order because he was awful. If they weren't throwng him strikes he'd have taken balls and gotten more walks. He probably has the best batting eye on the team (maybe better than Nick). The fact is he often can't hit fastballs right down the middle of the plate and why should the pitchers throw him him all fastballs when he can't hit curveballs either? I think the object is to throw off the hitters timing right?

Here are Reynolds numbers in the batting order last year:

Batting 5th - 63 PA - 567 OPS

Batting 6th - 190 PA - 765 OPS

batting 7th - 186 PA - 796 OPS

batting 8th - 95 PA - 809 OPS

He actually got progressively better the lower he got.

[Thyrl]

More protection mumbo jumbo. Reynolds got lowered in the batting order because he was awful. If they weren't throwng him strikes he'd have taken balls and gotten more walks. He probably has the best batting eye on the team (maybe better than Nick). The fact is he often can't hit fastballs right down the middle of the plate and why should the pitchers throw him him all fastballs when he can't hit curveballs either? I think the object is to throw off the hitters timing right?

Here are Reynolds numbers in the batting order last year:

Batting 5th - 63 PA - 567 OPS

Batting 6th - 190 PA - 765 OPS

batting 7th - 186 PA - 796 OPS

batting 8th - 95 PA - 809 OPS

He actually got progressively better the lower he got.

Fair point, but small sample and arguably his worst season. It also begs the question as to how depleted were the Orioles at the times Reynolds was elevated in the order and who batted behind him?

I could just as easily point as some have to the fact that Reynolds was at his best with runners on base this season and that putting him amidst real hitters would increase the numbers of those types of chances.

Reynolds definitely suffers as a result of his reputation, and doesn't get the benefit of the doubt very often when laying off of close pitches. Pitchers concerned with runners on base are theoretically less able to paint those corners with the same accuracy.

One thing for sure, pitchers (in general) are much more willing to walk a guy who has Andino coming up behind him than they would be with Adam Jones or a real middle of the order bat up next, and regardless of what those splits suggest we haven't seen many chances for Reynolds with real bats behind him.

Not to mention that in Hardy the Orioles essentially sent a white flag to the plate in the 2-hole for most of the year.

[byrdz]

They'd better get someone who's clearly better if they let him go!

[brianod]

Orioles fans were ready to burn Mark at the stake by mid July. Funny how perception changes.

His offense really sucked and hurt the team except for a couple of weeks where he got red hot. The thing that gives him value is his defense at first. Does that give him 9 million worth of value, hell no! I'd resign him at 5-6 million, no more. He's a good 7th or 8th hitter and for a 1b is below average offensively.

He's the kind of guy that is a nice add on to a good team but not the kind of guy to build around. He's the guy you can stomach going 0-4 with 2 strikeouts because every once in a while, he'll win a game with a three run homer.

His offense is too inconsistent to depend on. His defense is very good and you can depend on that. But, the total package isn't worth big money imo.

[Dark Helmet]

So now a player at acceptable cost is high ceiling? Reynolds projects as average at first base in a slightly optimistic scenario and slightly above average in a very optimistic scenario. His career wRC+ is 109, he's been slighly above and below that mark for the most part. Sorry, not buying the hype that Reynolds has turned himself into another Keith Hernandez at first base. Yes, I do think we can probably replace him at lesser cost.

I've defended Reynolds many times in the past on here, but quite frankly I am ready to move on from him if that's what the team feels they need to do. Maybe that means Butler at DH and Davis at first. Maybe the means Davis at first and a younger player with higher upside in the OF or first base. Maybe that means Willingham at DH. Maybe the means Davis at first and a platoon player at lower cost replacing Reynolds with the savings spent somewhere else. Who knows.

Reynolds just ain't that good. Quite frankly, I'm more worried about his downside. Based on what I saw last year I've got confidence that Duquette will improve the team.

What if that means Davis at 1b, and a Gomes/Betemit platoon at DH? I'm sorry, but letting Reynolds walk and then end up with that is sickening. Oh well, I hope Mark destroys the O's when he's playing for Boston. I agree with TradeAngelos. No point in beating anymore dead horses. But if the at the end, we dont have a clear better replacement for Reynolds, then this team is the same old act, with just a different puppet being waved around by Angelos.

[crowmst3k!]

Fair point, but small sample and arguably his worst season. It also begs the question as to how depleted were the Orioles at the times Reynolds was elevated in the order and who batted behind him?

I could just as easily point as some have to the fact that Reynolds was at his best with runners on base this season and that putting him amidst real hitters would increase the numbers of those types of chances.

Reynolds definitely suffers as a result of his reputation, and doesn't get the benefit of the doubt very often when laying off of close pitches. Pitchers concerned with runners on base are theoretically less able to paint those corners with the same accuracy.

One thing for sure, pitchers (in general) are much more willing to walk a guy who has Andino coming up behind him than they would be with Adam Jones or a real middle of the order bat up next, and regardless of what those splits suggest we haven't seen many chances for Reynolds with real bats behind him.

Not to mention that in Hardy the Orioles essentially sent a white flag to the plate in the 2-hole for most of the year.

Is this Thyrl Nelson from WNST?

[SteveO]

So now a player at acceptable cost is high ceiling? Reynolds projects as average at first base in a slightly optimistic scenario and slightly above average in a very optimistic scenario. His career wRC+ is 109, he's been slighly above and below that mark for the most part. Sorry, not buying the hype that Reynolds has turned himself into another Keith Hernandez at first base. Yes, I do think we can probably replace him at lesser cost.

I've defended Reynolds many times in the past on here, but quite frankly I am ready to move on from him if that's what the team feels they need to do. Maybe that means Butler at DH and Davis at first. Maybe the means Davis at first and a younger player with higher upside in the OF or first base. Maybe that means Willingham at DH. Maybe the means Davis at first and a platoon player at lower cost replacing Reynolds with the savings spent somewhere else. Who knows.

Reynolds just ain't that good. Quite frankly, I'm more worried about his downside. Based on what I saw last year I've got confidence that Duquette will improve the team.

Totally agree. Reynolds is a marginal player who is very inconsistent, strikes out to much and is decent at 1B but he is not the gold glover some seem to think he is (he does have a tendency to make the ordinary look extraordinary). Lets be real here, this is a guy we could not give away at the trade deadline. He improved his value by showing he could hold down 1B but his performance was not such that you just gotta bring him back. There are options. He certainly not a high ceiling guy.

If the market works out that they feel bringing him back on a short term deal makes sense, I can live with that for a year or two. If they decide to play Davis at 1B and use the money to bring in a DH, LF, SP etc then I am fine with that also. Like I said in another thread, the right thing to do is to assess all the options and then move to bring in the talent you need. Its not a sprint, things will get done that need to be done.

[notyourbuddy]

Reynolds is a marginal player who is very inconsistent, strikes out to much and is decent at 1B but he is not the gold glover some seem to think he is (he does have a tendency to make the ordinary look extraordinary). Lets be real here, this is a guy we could not give away at the trade deadline. He improved his value by showing he could hold down 1B but his performance was not such that you just gotta bring him back. There are options. He certainly not a high ceiling guy.

If the market works out that they feel bringing him back on a short term deal makes sense, I can live with that for a year or two. If they decide to play Davis at 1B and use the money to bring in a DH, LF, SP etc then I am fine with that also.

:scratchchinhmm: ..... :agree:

decent at 1B but he is not the gold glover some seem to think he is (he does have a tendency to make the ordinary look extraordinary)

:agree: x10 . Theatrics != gold glover even if your eyes think it does *stares at Ryan Zimmerman*