Antonen: O's have the brightest future in the AL East

[wildcard]

You're probably right, but then again I doubt Orioles fans need to be reminded about how good Showalter is.

True, but the O's are trying to appeal to fans that are not just the diehard fans like us. They are trying to go from 25,000 fans at a game to 35-40,000 fans at games. Their promotion is to say something special is going on with the O's and its not a one year thing. All the awards and wins help build the case to sell season tickets. I think Buck made it clear by saying it was a team award that it meant something to the team and to him. He would rather have won it.

[Frobby]

From a marketing standpoint I would imagine that the O's would like to have promoted the O's by saying they are led by the AL's Best Manager. I doubt they promote Buck as the AL's 2nd best manager.

Buck won the AL Manager award from Sporting News. He just won the same award from the Legacy Awards. Not winning it from the BBWAA kind of muddles things.

I think the O's already promote Buck more than any team promotes their manager. "BUCKle up!?". Ever see a LaRussa tee shirt? "Girardi up?". Buck couldn't be any more popular than he already is.

Anyway, nothing that Tony or anyone else has said has changed my mind. They don't appoint two voters for each city so that they can vote for guys from that city. This is the Baseball Writers' Assiciation, not the Baseball Cheerleaders' Association. I want to repeat what I said before - journalists are supposed to be objective. Their job is not to root for the home team. Ever heard of "no cheering in the press box?". How many times have we heard the complaint that the Baltimore media doesn't ask the tough questions and isn't hard enough on the Orioles -- and now we hear they have some obligation to vote for the Orioles manager if it's "close?". Sorry, that's hogwash.

In any event, 16 of 28 voters preferred Melvin. Take Antonen out, and Melvin still wins, so Antonen's view was the majority view. I wish Showalter had won, but I've got nothing against Antonen for giving his objective vote. Fifteen others agreed with him. Congrats to Melvin.

[wildcard]

I think the O's already promote Buck more than any team promotes their manager. "BUCKle up!?". Ever see a LaRussa tee shirt? "Girardi up?". Buck couldn't be any more popular than he already is.

Anyway, nothing that Tony or anyone else has said has changed my mind. They don't appoint two voters for each city so that they can vote for guys from that city. This is the Baseball Writers' Assiciation, not the Baseball Cheerleaders' Association. I want to repeat what I said before - journalists are supposed to be objective. Their job is not to root for the home team. Ever heard of "no cheering in the press box?". How many times have we heard the complaint that the Baltimore media doesn't ask the tough questions and isn't hard enough on the Orioles -- and now we hear they have some obligation to vote for the Orioles manager if it's "close?". Sorry, that's hogwash.

In any event, 16 of 28 voters preferred Melvin. Take Antonen out, and Melvin still wins, so Antonen's view was the majority view. I wish Showalter had won, but I've got nothing against Antonen for giving his objective vote. Fifteen others agreed with him. Congrats to Melvin.

I think we are talking about to different things. You are talking about it from a BBWAA perspective. I am talking about it from an Orioles management perspective.

[Frobby]

I think we are talking about to different things. You are talking about it from a BBWAA perspective. I am talking about it from an Orioles management perspective.

Only my first paragraph was a response to you. But frankly, I don't think management will care so much that they won't talk to Antonen, and he isn't the primary MASN reporter on the Orioles beat, or even the no. 2 guy. He's more on the Nats side of MASN, and more like a columnist than a beat reporter, so he's not spending a lot of time digging up information from sources in the Orioles' organization. The impact of this on Antonen's ability to do his job will be zero to minimal.

[Tony-OH]

Ding! Ding! His vote was based on personal interest. He has asperations to be national. A vote for Buck makes him a homer. It's got nothing to do with what he honestly thinks. It's the same with all of these jokers. Self promotion is the game for sports "writers"?

This probably makes more sense than some supposed reasoning for voting for Melvin. The Orioles have been an abomination for 14 years. Showalter took a team that missed their best pitcher and hitter for much of the season as well as multiple other injuries, balanced a six to seven man rotation in September due to trying to keep guys fresh, and was able to keep his bullpen fresh all season. He mixed and matched players like Pearce, Ford, Tolleson, Teagarden and Avery and found ways to win with those guys. We're not talking like we're expecting him to vote for Chen over Trout or for Jim Johnson for Cy Young, we're talking we expected him to vote for a very, very deserving Showalter.

[wildcard]

I labeled your post? Where. You suggested the Orioles could seek retribution towards Antonen, by way of access, as if that would be okay with you. I didn't like your post. I didn't suggest that you shouldn't be allowed to post anymore or that anything should be done to you. You have a right to your opinion. So does Antonen.

Totally agree he has a right to his opinion. We will see what happens next.

[wildcard]

Only my first paragraph was a response to you. But frankly, I don't think management will care so much that they won't talk to Antonen, and he isn't the primary MASN reporter on the Orioles beat, or even the no. 2 guy. He's more on the Nats side of MASN, and more like a columnist than a beat reporter, so he's not spending a lot of time digging up information from sources in the Orioles' organization. The impact of this on Antonen's ability to do his job will be zero to minimal.

You could be right. Being a Nats guy he should not have been put in an O's slot for the voting. Connolly slipped up on that.

[Tony-OH]

I think you just proved my point.

You didn't like what I wrote. So your reaction was to label it something distasteful.

I am sure there are those in the O's organization that do not like the way Antonen voted. He did not support the O's organization. At a minimum the O's would never want Antonen to represent the Orioles in a vote again. But the O's management reaction (like your reaction) could be much greater.

The O's compete with 29 teams every day. There are those who support them in that competition and there are those who don't. They probably like to work with those who do.

The Orioles will not and should not do anything to Antonen. He made a bad choice, but he did not do anything but vote. I don't think the Orioles have anything to do with telling the BBWAA who is supposed to represent their city. I would think that Orioles fan should be upset, but the Orioles are not going to do anything to Antonen, nor should they.

Here's my major rub. People assume that the local guys know the local manager very closely. They'll assume that the writer covers the team every day, but Antonen doesn't. Still, people will assume that and they'll point out, "Hey, one of your own voters voted for Melvin, you have no argument."

Now I'm a loyal guy to a fault, and even though I realize that society has changed and loyalty is no longer cherished by many, I still believe that you support the local guy if the vote is close, and I'm not sure anyone can build a case that these two weren't at least neck and neck. When you are given one of the votes for the city (and yes, the BBWAA gives two votes per city for this very reason), you should vote for the local guy IF they are close as this decision should have been. This does not mean that the local voter has to be a homer or always vote for the local guys, that would be silly, but considering what Showlater did this year with a team that has stunk for 14 years, it's fathomable that Showalter didn't win the award and its even more unfathomable that one of the local votes went to Melvin. this is what happens when a DC guy and guy who think he's a national writer votes instead of a true local voter like Dan Connolly or Peter Schmuck.

[wildcard]

If the Oriole's tried to cut off access to Antonen because of his vote, would you be okay with that?

If the O's do that it will be in a way that you or I will not know about it. I don't expect the O's to give anything special to someone that does support them. They have more obligation to a fan that buys a ticket then to a local guy in a O's voting slot that does not vote for them.

[Tony-OH]

Showalter did a great job. Oakland traded their 2 best young starters and the third one was out for most of the season. Their 4th guy got busted for steroids 3/4 through the season. They traded their starting catcher halfway through the season. They got Brandon Inge off the scrap heap and then he got hurt and then Josh Donaldson filled in. They changed shorstops halfway throught the season. Their 2B to start the season flopped and the had to make a change there. Their bullpen was lead by the reknowned Grant Balfour (can't even spell his name!). Can you even name anyone else in their bullpen without looking it up. They used converted position player, Sean Doolittle, as their lefty towards the end of the season. They were way behind Texas, caught them, and then beat them head to head in the last series of the season to make the playoffs. It's not clear who did the better job. They both did a great job. Reasonable people can disagree. In this situation I would expect a reasonable person to respect the opinion of someon who voted for Melvin.

Agreed it was close, disagree that the "local" guy should vote with the other guy when its close. It's really that simple. I obviously think Showalter should have won the award and I know I'm biased, but what stinks is that in a "race" as close as this, one of the local guys turned his back and voted with the other guy. Simply disgraceful, and it shows Antonen has done nothing but use Baltimore to get a vote. This is partly the Suns fault for not allowing their writers to vote so instead we get some carpetbagger giving his national view.

[Enjoy Terror]

Melvin's team had a $26M less payroll

He lead the A's to a season record of 94 wins versus the Orioles 93.

The A's were 5-4 against the Orioles.

The A's won their division (a tougher division, at that), overcoming a 13 game deficit on the final day of the season

Had the best record post all star break

Went the same number of games into the playoffs

Rookie usage:

OAK 907.1/1470IP 61%

BAL 582/1483IP 39%

OAK 1692/6183PA 27%

BAL 583/6160PA 9%

A's got many more miles out of rookie players.

Is there something Buck did better than Melvin that I didn't see?

[wildcard]

Melvin's team had a $26M less payroll

He lead the A's to a season record of 94 wins versus the Orioles 93.

The A's were 5-4 against the Orioles.

The A's won their division (a tougher division, at that), overcoming a 13 game deficit on the final day of the season

Had the best record post all star break

Went the same number of games into the playoffs

Rookie usage:

OAK 907.1/1470IP 61%

BAL 582/1483IP 39%

OAK 1692/6183PA 27%

BAL 583/6160PA 9%

A's got many more miles out of rookie players.

Is there something Buck did better than Melvin that I didn't see?

Did both the Oakland sportswriters vote for Melvin?

[Enjoy Terror]

Did both the Oakland sportswriters vote for Melvin?

http://bbwaa.com/12-al-mgr/

Yes

[weams]

Of course

Did both the Oakland sportswriters vote for Melvin?

They did. As the Baltimore writers should have voted for Buck.

[Ohfan67]

From a marketing standpoint I would imagine that the O's would like to have promoted the O's by saying they are led by the AL's Best Manager. I doubt they promote Buck as the AL's 2nd best manager.

Buck won the AL Manager award from Sporting News. He just won the same award from the Legacy Awards. Not winning it from the BBWAA kind of muddles things.

Like they did in '97?

I think you missed the irony.