I need to vent about this whole Cabrera-Trout argument

[Can_of_corn]

I'm sure the Triple Crown was a huge consideration. That said, I think many (probably most) of the writers look at the two players and made their decision based on a beleif that Cabrera was more valuable to his team than Trout was to his team. From that, add in the post season. I just see that type of logic over and over from baseball analyists.

What was the Angels record before and after Trout was called up?

If the writers were using that criteria I still say they picked the wrong guy.

[CA-ORIOLE]

What was the Angels record before and after Trout was called up?

If the writers were using that criteria I still say they picked the wrong guy.

I guarantee you they used that logic in determining Cabrera was more valuable. In fact, I'd bet that logic was first and foremost in their selection process. I'd also bet they did nothing in terms of any statisitical analysis to back it up.

[Frobby]

What was the Angels record before and after Trout was called up?

If the writers were using that criteria I still say they picked the wrong guy.

The Angels were 7-13 without Trout. That's one of the strongest arguments in his favor.

[paulcoates]

Kurkijan was interviewed on ESPN about this and he said it was the single most difficult vote he has ever cast. He said he asked 10 different ball players who they should have won the MVP, and 9 chose Cabrera.

I will take player opinions over stats any day.

[Can_of_corn]

Kurkijan was interviewed on ESPN about this and he said it was the single most difficult vote he has ever cast. He said he asked 10 different ball players who they should have won the MVP, and 9 chose Cabrera.

I will take player opinions over stats any day.

I have seen enough of players working as analysts to come to the conclusion that their opinion isn't worth more then the average fan's.

[Barnaby Graves]

I have seen enough of players working as analysts to come to the conclusion that their opinion isn't worth more then the average fan's.

"Did you see the way that ball curved on Teixeira? Of course you didn't! You don't know the finer points of infield grass cutting like I do!"

[Loophole]

Players are (and should be) too busy stressing over their own performance to spend a season analyzing every other player's value to their team. They might see another player as few as six times in a year. And they mostly don't care about advanced metrics. The only players really fit to judge Cabrera and Trout are their teammates and you know what their teammates are gonna say. Same deal with any award managers vote on.

[paulcoates]

I have seen enough of players working as analysts to come to the conclusion that their opinion isn't worth more then the average fan's.

They may not be great analysts but they know what it takes on the field more than 99.99% of any fan. I will trust their on field knowledge more than a stat as to who is the overall mvp

[paulcoates]

Players are (and should be) too busy stressing over their own performance to spend a season analyzing every other player's value to their team. They might see another player as few as six times in a year. And they mostly don't care about advanced metrics. The only players really fit to judge Cabrera and Trout are their teammates and you know what their teammates are gonna say. Same deal with any award managers vote on.

Well given that no stat is going to perfectly measure a players value means that it will always be a persons vote

[russ snyder]

Players are (and should be) too busy stressing over their own performance to spend a season analyzing every other player's value to their team. They might see another player as few as six times in a year. And they mostly don't care about advanced metrics. The only players really fit to judge Cabrera and Trout are their teammates and you know what their teammates are gonna say. Same deal with any award managers vote on.

Players spend enough time reading scouting reports and analyzing tape to know who the best players are. They'll worry about advanced metrics when it is to their benefit in contract negotiations. To say that the only players fit to judge Cabrera and Trout are their teammates is a pretty big stretch IMO.

[CA-ORIOLE]

They may not be great analysts but they know what it takes on the field more than 99.99% of any fan. I will trust their on field knowledge more than a stat as to who is the overall mvp

Ehh, don't buy it. The players know the how's but that doesn't mean they know the why's. Who would you trust to design a 20 story building, a carpenter or an engineer?

[Loophole]

Players spend enough time reading scouting reports and analyzing tape to know who the best players are. They'll worry about advanced metrics when it is to their benefit in contract negotiations. To say that the only players fit to judge Cabrera and Trout are their teammates is a pretty big stretch IMO.

Do hitters really spend any time watching tape on other hitters? Same with pitchers? Hell, pitchers probably spend more time watching themselves than opposing hitters.

And if you're basing your ballot on scouting reports, you're gonna have a really weird looking ballot.

[russ snyder]

Do hitters really spend any time watching tape on other hitters? Same with pitchers? Hell, pitchers probably spend more time watching themselves than opposing hitters.

And if you're basing your ballot on scouting reports, you're gonna have a really weird looking ballot.

Well I'm sure catchers watch tape of opposing hitters. ( They usually hit as well.) Further, I'm sure that most players read scouting reports on who is hot and who isn't. Pitchers probably watch how other pitchers are working hitters as well as watching their own mechanics.

The scouting reports would probably rate Trout the better all around player than Cabrera. The fact of the matter is that the 9 out of ten players polled by Tim K. picked Cabrera over Trout. These guys don't vote, but they are entitled to their opinion just like you and me.

[Frobby]

Well I'm sure catchers watch tape of opposing hitters. ( They usually hit as well.) Further, I'm sure that most players read scouting reports on who is hot and who isn't. Pitchers probably watch how other pitchers are working hitters as well as watching their own mechanics.

The scouting reports would probably rate Trout the better all around player than Cabrera. The fact of the matter is that the 9 out of ten players polled by Tim K. picked Cabrera over Trout. These guys don't vote, but they are entitled to their opinion just like you and me.

Players don't have any special knowledge of who is "better." I certainly expect them to know how to adjust their defensive positioning when Cabrera or Trout is up, or what base to throw to when one of them is on the bases. But I doubt many of them are doing seep thinking about the exact value of a stolen base or going from 1st to 3rd on a single, compared to the value of a homer.

[russ snyder]

Players don't have any special knowledge of who is "better." I certainly expect them to know how to adjust their defensive positioning when Cabrera or Trout is up, or what base to throw to when one of them is on the bases. But I doubt many of them are doing seep thinking about the exact value of a stolen base or going from 1st to 3rd on a single, compared to the value of a homer.

Sure they do. They are human beings and they have opinions just like everyone else. Further, they play with and/or against these guys for six months. You are correct that they are reading the scouting reports for the reasons that you list, they are not being used to vote for whomever is most valuable. My point is that from a major league's scout's perspective Trout would probably be viewed as a better all around player than Cabrera.