Schilling Calls Out Clemens

[66-70-83-??]

I agree with what you are saying -- 100%. Emphasis on "conscious decision."

There is a problem though.

Just as another poster stated: We have absolutely no way of knowing if the next guy inline was clean or not. I have a feeling that the Mitchell Report merely scratched the surface -- they got someone to roll and give up some names. That's it. There are more trainers, players, etc. involved. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked to find out that a vast majority of starting players were using some sort of performance enhancer. That might be an overstatement of the scope -- but it wouldn't shock me.

I'm glad someone has called Clemens to task. The ball has been hit back to his court. It will be interesting to see if he responds.

Wouldn't it be sweet to see Clemens called before congress.

I totally reject the notion that we shouldn't punish (or take away award or not give HOF vote too, etc..... whatever is decided to do with the cheaters) any player that is caught because another player or 100 players that might have cheated weren't caught.

You only can deal with the ones you know did it.

Would you use that standard in any other situation- there are 1000's of unsolved thefts each year so do you let thieves that are caught get away free ? Speeders ? Kids cheating on exams ? etc....

Of course you wouldn't use that logic with the other situations. Why should ballplayers get a free pass ?

So, some got away with it ? So, what ? Life isn't fair. The ones who did get caught can't cry foul because they had an opportunity to not get caught. They made a conscious decision to take the drugs.

[mweb]

I totally reject the notion that we shouldn't punish (or take away award or not give HOF vote too, etc..... whatever is decided to do with the cheaters) any player that is caught because another player or 100 players that might have cheated weren't caught.

You only can deal with the ones you know did it.

Would you use that standard in any other situation- there are 1000's of unsolved thefts each year so do you let thieves that are caught get away free ? Speeders ? Kids cheating on exams ? etc....

Of course you wouldn't use that logic with the other situations. Why should ballplayers get a free pass ?

So, some got away with it ? So, what ? Life isn't fair. The ones who did get caught can't cry foul because they had an opportunity to not get caught. They made a conscious decision to take the drugs.

First off, it's a lot more than 1 or 100. Second off, your standard in any other situation examples hae nothing to do with this.

My point is that it's rather silly to take away awards, records, right to be in the HOF, for a few when it's known that a third(probably more like half) of players have used steroids and/or hGH. This has been the steroid era, almost no one did anything to stop it, so they should just move on instead of rewarding others who haven't been caught, but very well may have also used.

Using one of your examples, it would be like if speeding was widely accepted, no one did anything to stop it, many were doing it, the government decideds to do something about it, and then you get tickets for speeding years ago. While most other speeders get away with it.

[Boy Howdy]

The Schilling hate on here reaks of jealousy.

We'd love him if he was ours.

I'd love him during the bulk of the 200 or so innings he hurled annually, but between starts and during the winter months I'm sure I'd still find myself wondering "Why can't this guy just shut up and pitch?" like I do now.

[Moose Milligan]

I'd love him during the bulk of the 200 or so innings he hurled annually, but between starts and during the winter months I'm sure I'd still find myself wondering "Why can't this guy just shut up and pitch?" like I do now.

If the O's had a pitcher who kept an incredibly detailed blog and wasn't afraid to speak out and share his thoughts and feelings about things, you mean to tell me that we wouldn't be eating it up with a spoon?

We spend a good chunk of the day here discussing the most obscure things and I bet if we had someone like Schilling on the team, we'd go NUTS discussing and dissecting everything on his blog. We'd also love to have a guy that's not afraid to stand up to the Sox and MFY's.

Part of me also thinks we're a bit bitter that he used to be ours and that we got burned in the Glenn Davis trade.

I really don't see how anyone expects athletes to "shut up and play" in this day and age where the media is prevalent and there are so many outlets for people to be heard.

[Boy Howdy]

If the O's had a pitcher who kept an incredibly detailed blog and wasn't afraid to speak out and share his thoughts and feelings about things, you mean to tell me that we wouldn't be eating it up with a spoon?

We spend a good chunk of the day here discussing the most obscure things and I bet if we had someone like Schilling on the team, we'd go NUTS discussing and dissecting everything on his blog. We'd also love to have a guy that's not afraid to stand up to the Sox and MFY's.

Part of me also thinks we're a bit bitter that he used to be ours and that we got burned in the Glenn Davis trade.

I really don't see how anyone expects athletes to "shut up and play" in this day and age where the media is prevalent and there are so many outlets for people to be heard.

To be totally honest Moose, my 'shut up and play' attitude towards Schilling stems mainly from the fact that I frequently disagree with him and don't like his politics.

I'm all for having more outspoken characters along the lines of Bill Lee, John Lowenstein, Pedro Martinez in baseball.

I'd never deny Schilling his right to express himself, and in certain ways I think what he does is cool. Personally though, I'd love to watch all 30 of his starts in 2008 and never hear a word from him. We can dream, right?

[66-70-83-??]

First off, it's a lot more than 1 or 100. Second off, your standard in any other situation examples hae nothing to do with this.

My point is that it's rather silly to take away awards, records, right to be in the HOF, for a few when it's known that a third(probably more like half) of players have used steroids and/or hGH. This has been the steroid era, almost no one did anything to stop it, so they should just move on instead of rewarding others who haven't been caught, but very well may have also used.

Using one of your examples, it would be like if speeding was widely accepted, no one did anything to stop it, many were doing it, the government decideds to do something about it, and then you get tickets for speeding years ago. While most other speeders get away with it.

I am not saying that awards should be taken away. I really don't know what to do about the steroid era. I have some ideas, though. More time and possibly more info will make it an easier decision.

Luckily, it isn't my decison to make.

But, we will still have to agree to disagree on the idea of letting players who are caught get a pass simply because some who are guilty weren't caught.

I know the whole era is suspect, but it isn't fair to the clean players to let the ones who are caught get a free pass. Everyone forgets or dismisses the fact that there are clean players who are being lumped in the group.

[Winning_Season]

Yea I'm seriously getting tired of Schilling and his mouth. Does he ever stop saying controversial things just to keep himself in the limelight. Has anyone here ever read his blog? The one time I read it like half his post was complaining about some balls and strike calls on like 1-1 pitches in the 4th inning.

[mweb]

I am not saying that awards should be taken away. I really don't know what to do about the steroid era. I have some ideas, though. More time and possibly more info will make it an easier decision.

Luckily, it isn't my decison to make.

But, we will still have to agree to disagree on the idea of letting players who are caught get a pass simply because some who are guilty weren't caught.

I know the whole era is suspect, but it isn't fair to the clean players to let the ones who are caught get a free pass. Everyone forgets or dismisses the fact that there are clean players who are being lumped in the group.

I'm not saying they should totally get a total pass, but they should keep their awards and be let in the HOF. Their image and legacy will always be tarnished, and that's fine.

And I am not forgetting or dismissing the fact that there are clean players who are being lumped in with the group, but you know what, they're partially to blame for that. Their union let this happen.

[RShack]

Using one of your examples, it would be like if speeding was widely accepted, no one did anything to stop it, many were doing it, the government decideds to do something about it, and then you get tickets for speeding years ago. While most other speeders get away with it.

Well, I just hope they take away the Cy Young Awards that Maddux and Glavine got, plus stop them from getting into the HOF. Those creeps were racking up most of their 300 wins by throwing balls 4" off the plate and getting away with it! Now, some wimpy-liberal type who doesn't even believe in Personal Responsibility is gonna start whining and crying about how the umps called them strikes. But rules are rules, and we just can't let people get away with illegal stuff like this. There's absolutely no room for any doubt about it: the rules CLEARLY STATE that for a pitch to be a called strike, IT HAS TO BE OVER THE PLATE. Everybody knows that. Even goofy little kids in Little League know that. It's one of the basic laws of baseball! They can't say they didn't know about it. There's been a rule about this for a lot longer than rules about steroids. And these two cheating scumbags (along with the rest of Mazzone's sleazy gang down there in ATL), they were getting away with murder, getting strikes called like crazy for pitches that were NOT OVER THE PLATE! If that's not cheating, what is? If they had just played fair by throwing the dang ball over the dang plate, then hitters wouldn't have needed all these dang steroids to be able to hit it!

Now, I don't wanna hear a lot crap from bleeding-hearts, whining about how the umps let 'em slide on this by calling them strikes. That's exactly what the damn union is gonna say. But the union is most of the problem anyway, because the union doesn't even like salary caps. Enough is enough! THESE GUYS SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE! THEY'RE THE ONES WHO THREW THE BALL THERE, AND THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE! Nobody made them do it. They made a Personal Choice to throw the ball there. They were TRYING to get unfair strikes called by missing the plate on purpose! It's not like it was an accident. It's not like they just did it once or twice. These two cheaters threw the ball in the exact same place, 4" off the plate, and they did it pitch after pitch, game after game. So, they made their own bed, and now it's time for them to sleep in it. Whether the "powers that be" encouraged this kind of cheating is COMPLETELY BESIDE THE POINT! Rules are rules, and we need to draw a line in the sand about it. Just because the umps didn't enforce the rules, that is NO EXCUSE because this is about Personal Responsibility. Plus, it's a provable fact that we have NO REPORTS BY ANY FORMER SENATORS saying that the umps were in on it. So they weren't.

And look, there's no reason to cut corners on nailing these bums. We don't need to be framing these cheats based on if-fy circumstantial evidence. We have proof: the video! If you don't wanna review all the games, then let's just look at the one measly WS they won. You can see it right there. Take their damn rings away, that's what I say. Let them keep their tainted wins, but take their rings away, take their ill-gotten Cy Young Awards away, and keep them out of the HOF. If we don't, it's just NOT FAIR to all the pitchers who played the game on the up-and-up. Lots of perfectly clean pitchers got hammered because they obeyed the rules, didn't cheat, and threw the ball over the plate. Meanwhile Maddux and Glavine cheated, got rich, and have a whole trophy case of awards. Where's the Personal Integrity in that? You just can't let people get away with this stuff, it's not right. It's just not.

;-)

[mweb]

Funny post, but I'm not sure why you quoted me, so that's all I have to say in response.

[Gurgi]

Well, I just hope they stop Maddux and Glavine from getting into the HOF. Those creeps were racking up most of their 300 wins by throwing balls 4" off the plate and getting away with it! Now, some wimpy-liberal type who doesn't even believe in Personal Responsibility is gonna start whining and crying about how the umps called them strikes. But rules are rules, and we just can't let people get away with illegal stuff like this. There's absolutely no room for any doubt about it: the rules CLEARLY STATE that for a pitch to be a called strike, IT HAS TO BE OVER THE PLATE. It's one of the basic laws of baseball! They can't say they didn't know about it. There's been a rule about this for a lot longer than rules about steroids. And these cheating scumbags (along with the rest of Mazzone's sleazy gang down there in ATL), they were getting away with murder, getting strikes called like crazy for pitches that were NOT OVER THE PLATE! If that's not cheating, what is?

Now, I don't wanna hear a lot crap from bleeding-hearts, whining about how the ump let 'em slide on this by calling them strikes. THESE GUYS SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE! THEY'RE THE ONES WHO THREW THE BALL THERE, AND THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE! Nobody made them do it. They made a personal choice to throw the ball there. So they made their own bed, and now it's time for them to sleep in it. Whether the POWERS THAT BE *encouraged* this kind of cheating is COMPLETELY BESIDE THE POINT! Rules are rules, and we need to draw a line in the sand about it. Just because the umps didn't enforce the rules, that is NO EXCUSE because this is about Personal Responsibility. And look, there's no reason for any doubt about this. We don't need to be framing these cheats based on if-fy circumstantial evidence. We have proof: the video! We don't even need to review all the games. Let's just look at the one measly WS they won. You can see it right there. Take their damn rings away, that's what I say. You just can't let people get away with this stuff, it's not right. It's just not.

Maybe you should of just walked on the beach instead of posting this one.

[RShack]

Maybe you should of just walked on the beach instead of posting this one.

I can't. I just drove to ATL, and I was all wired from driving through the rain. Five hours of dodging 18-wheelers in the pouring rain will make you do stuff like this ;-)

[RShack]

Funny post, but I'm not sure why you quoted me, so that's all I have to say in response.

You were an innocent bystander. Plus, you're not the angry vindictive type. Plus, you made a good point, which is sorta what got me started. Sorry

[Migrant Redbird]

Maybe you should of just walked on the beach instead of posting this one.

Good Grief! And here I'm giving him rep points for one of the most delicious bits of satire that I've read in quite a while.

But I've been on both ends of that problem myself, having someone miss the satire in my posts because I don't like to use smiley faces all the time, then reacting strongly to somebody else's post because I failed to recognize them doing the same.

[Migrant Redbird]

The Schilling hate on here reaks of jealousy.

We'd love him if he was ours.

Did I miss something? I thought that he was?

I guess that those 44 starts in 1988 - 1990 weren't enough to build up an irrevocable love?