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O's Acquire Danny Valencia


Orioles0615

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It is. But a poster sent me a link to this. Everyone should read it and be happy for a few minutes.

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2012/11/duquette-on-bundy-gausman-they-have-serious-talent.html

"I believe both of them have the skill and ability to contribute to the big league team next year," Duquette said. "They are on a good track. They both got to Double-A this year, and even though it was for a limited time, they both did well there. They have the talent. They have serious talent. They have the talent and skills to be first division major league starting pitchers. Both of them. They are going to be good, both of them."

I've learned to temper my expectations about prospects, no matter how many glowing things are said about them as minor leaguers. Wieters hasn't been nearly as good a hitter as we expected; Matusz has been disapointing so far (I'd argue his hype was equal to Gausman's, maybe greater). There have been very few instant successes among Orioles prospects in the last 20 years. So, while I have high hopes for Bundy and Gausman, I'll believe they are TOR major league pitchers when they actually reach that level, and not one minute before.

That said, I can easily envision scenarios where we have one of the top 3-5 pitching staffs in baseball in a year or two. But for right now, they are just scenarios.

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I've learned to temper my expectations about prospects, no matter how many glowing things are said about them as minor leaguers. Wieters hasn't been nearly as good a hitter as we expected; Matusz has been disapointing so far (I'd argue his hype was equal to Gausman's, maybe greater). There have been very few instant successes among Orioles prospects in the last 20 years. So, while I have high hopes for Bundy and Gausman, I'll believe they are TOR major league pitchers when they actually reach that level, and not one minute before.

That said, I can easily envision scenarios where we have one of the top 3-5 pitching staffs in baseball in a year or two. But for right now, they are just scenarios.

I agree for the most part here Frobby. You are correct on a lot of fronts regarding O's prospects. It is hit or miss at times. But at the same time the caliber of prospects in this organization are changing then what they have been in the past. You now have scouts, special assistants that have a long resume of producing all-star caliber players. I already knew Duq had an eye for talent, but what I watched for is who he brought with him to the Orioles organization. He's brought some of the old guard with him that helped cultivate the Montreal Expos into one of the best organizations talent wise in the early to mid 90's. Those guys know how to find talent and not just stop there, they know how develop that talent at the same time. Not sure that's always been the case in the past with the O's organization.

I spoke with a trainer that the O's have on staff a while back who we've all heard about. Did a lot of partying with him in Ft. Myers :thumbsup1: I asked him a simple question. I said, is Duq developing this team like he did when I was with the Red Sox? He said you should of seen this place when we stepped into it. It was a hell hole. He wasn't talking about the facility. He was talking about the organization from top down. It's funny trainers and clubbies aren't baseball people, but they know the inner workings of every organization.

So I do completely understand your apprehension on Bundy from past experiences. But if the O's are wrong about Bundy, so is the rest of Major League Baseball. The O's have 2 good ones on their hands that will be around for a little while.

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I'm hesitant to call out PA again, because that may get everyone up in a bunch, and come across as a troll. I'm not aksing for a Hamilton and Grienke signing. But, must the team always look to cheap options?

A few quick responses...

1. I can't speak for everyone here by any means, but I know very many of us cannot stand Angelos. It's about promises with MASN money, Jon Miller, Davey Johnson, LaCava, Stockstills, Brooks and so so so so so much more. It started well before the Miller/Johnson stuff. When he suddenly walked into the locker room this year it made me want to puke.

2. From a high-level perspective, the O's are about middle of the pack in spending. As a mid-market team with one local competitor, another semi-local competitor for a substantial amount of rural fans, and a low gate resulting from poor performance, that isn't necessarily unreasonable.

3. From my perspective, our average payroll isn't necessarily the problem. The problem has more to do with what we've gotten out of our investments. Roberts and Markakis have tied up something like 25% of our payroll over the last couple of years. One gives us negative value when he's actually played and the other has turned into a mediocre outfielder who slap hits and can't steal bases. I know Kakes had a really nice stretch in 12, so there's hope, but the failure of so much payroll to produce at high levels is important. Add in Guthrie and other moderately paid guys like Baez/Walker/Bradford types in the past, not to mention under-performance from guys like Reynolds and Hardy and it starts to tell you that the amount of the investment may be less important than the quality of the investment.

4. So if you want to make big investments under mid-market constraints, it seems to me that you have to stop making medium-large investments on low WAR guys. The only way to fix that is to run a great organization, and since Angelos is incapable of doing that, we just have to hope that we've lucked out with DD and Buck.

P.S. Re: #1, many of us here are totally sick of the anti-Angelos talk anyway. That dead horse has been beaten in various places for 20 years. Some people respect the man, others loathe him, but he's been what he is for a long time now so many of us simply acknowledge that and operate with the assumption that our financial and leadership constraints will be what they are until proven otherwise. In the past, those who don't want to accept this beatdown of morale have gone crazy, been kicked off of message boards, and wasted waaaay too many precious hours of our short lives bemoaning something that we ultimately realize simply isn't changing as long as PA is our owner. Take my word for this. I'm also a Redskins fan. That makes me an expert in bad ownership.

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I agree for the most part here Frobby. You are correct on a lot of fronts regarding O's prospects. It is hit or miss at times. But at the same time the caliber of prospects in this organization are changing then what they have been in the past. You now have scouts, special assistants that have a long resume of producing all-star caliber players. I already knew Duq had an eye for talent, but what I watched for is who he brought with him to the Orioles organization. He's brought some of the old guard with him that helped cultivate the Montreal Expos into one of the best organizations talent wise in the early to mid 90's. Those guys know how to find talent and not just stop there, they know how develop that talent at the same time. Not sure that's always been the case in the past with the O's organization.

I spoke with a trainer that the O's have on staff a while back who we've all heard about. Did a lot of partying with him in Ft. Myers :thumbsup1: I asked him a simple question. I said, is Duq developing this team like he did when I was with the Red Sox? He said you should of seen this place when we stepped into it. It was a hell hole. He wasn't talking about the facility. He was talking about the organization from top down. It's funny trainers and clubbies aren't baseball people, but they know the inner workings of every organization.

So I do completely understand your apprehension on Bundy from past experiences. But if the O's are wrong about Bundy, so is the rest of Major League Baseball. The O's have 2 good ones on their hands that will be around for a little while.

I'm very encouraged by what I'm hearing on that front, and to some extent, what we've seen from players coming up to the majors this year. Minor league player development is the most underrated and underappreciated part of a baseball organization, because it's invisible to the fans. If Duquette builds that up to be topnotch, he's done about 60% of his job, IMO.

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