Proof that Raffy was clean?

[Rene88]

I am confused about the bat speed thing, perhaps someone can help. I remembered seeing him as a younger player and always had the same elegant, easy swing. I really don't understand that but I am not a scout. I personally think he belongs in the HOF based on what I know. More than Edgar Martinez that is for sure.

[JayThomas]

Even without steroids I think the 3,000 hits, 500 HR benchmarks were bound to fall eventually.

Come on MurphDogg, don't diminish 3000/500. Only 4 guys have done this. Ever. Sure some time someone else will, but I think legacy has established these as a true benchmark. I'd be tickled pink to have Raffy in the Hall as an Oriole and have 2 of the 4 guys with 3000/500 as ex-Orioles during my baseball-watching lifetime.

[Can_of_corn]

Come on MurphDogg, don't diminish 3000/500. Only 4 guys have done this. Ever. Sure some time someone else will, but I think legacy has established these as a true benchmark. I'd be tickled pink to have Raffy in the Hall as an Oriole and have 2 of the 4 guys with 3000/500 as ex-Orioles during my baseball-watching lifetime.

I don't think 3000 has the impact it used to since the fandom as a whole is so much more aware and appreciative of walks. Leading the league in hits used to mean something.

[olehippi]

I'm not sure that Raffy would be in the HOF anyway. He was an accumulator of counting stats in an era in which it was easiest to accumulate counting stats for any number of reasons (nutrition, ease of travel, stadium size, expansion, 162-game schedule, DH, etc.). He was rarely an All Star and never in the MVP discussion. Even without steroids I think the 3,000 hits, 500 HR benchmarks were bound to fall eventually. I also don't believe that Fred McGriff would be in the Hall of Fame if he had gotten the extra ten homers that were taken from him because of the 1994 strike. Raffy had a lower WAR than Bobby Grich. He was a very good player but rarely the best on his own team. You didn't stop to watch the tv when you saw that he was up, he was just kind of there for a long time. He had great health and played for a long time, but he was not a slam dunk HOF guy.

So are you saying that because it took Cal Ripken Jr. 21 years to "accumulate" playing in 2,632 consecutive games that he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame?

And, I think Palmeiro was duped.

[TonySoprano]

Radomski recalled receiving a call from Piatt during which he said he needed extra testosterone because “one of the guys wanted some.” In a later conversation, Piatt told Radomski that the testosterone was for his teammate, Miguel Tejada. Radomski never spoke, or sold performance enhancing substances, directly to Tejada. Radomski provided this information to me without knowledge that I had spoken to Piatt or that I was otherwise aware of Piatt’s alleged sales to Tejada. Similarly, Piatt was unaware of any statements by Radomski on this subject when he was interviewed by my investigative staff.

As discussed earlier in this report, Tejada was interviewed as part of a congressional investigation into whether Rafael Palmeiro had lied under oath about his use of performance enhancing substances during a March 17, 2005 congressional committee hearing.

In that investigation, Palmeiro said he had received injectable, and legal, vitamin B12 from Tejada; Palmeiro said it was possible the vitamin B12 had been tainted and had been the reason for his positive test for steroids. Tejada admitted to investigators that he provided injectable vitamin B12 to Palmeiro and two other unidentified Orioles players during the 2005 season. The congressional report said that the Players Association had tested another vial of vitamin B12 provided by Tejada and it showed no signs of steroids.

source - Houston Chronicle, Dec 13, 2007

[Moose Milligan]

All I know is if i were Raffy, I would have been extraordinarily careful as to what went into my body after wagging my finger at that hearing. I'd drink nothing but water filtered through a Brita about five times, free range chicken with NO HORMONES and grass fed beef from cows that I slaughtered myself.

For those of you who are saying that he was "set up"....who was he "set up" by? Who'd do such a nefarious thing? It's like you guys are Angela Landsbury and this is a case of Murder She Wrote.

[Can_of_corn]

All I know is if i were Raffy, I would have been extraordinarily careful as to what went into my body after wagging my finger at that hearing. I'd drink nothing but water filtered through a Brita about five times, free range chicken with NO HORMONES and grass fed beef from cows that I slaughtered myself.

For those of you who are saying that he was "set up"....who was he "set up" by? Who'd do such a nefarious thing? It's like you guys are Angela Landsbury and this is a case of Murder She Wrote.

To play Devil's advocate...

There might not have been malice behind the action. What if the person in question intent was to "help" Raffy get to 500/3000 and they knew that steroids had helped their performance?

[Moose Milligan]

To play Devil's advocate...

There might not have been malice behind the action. What if the person in question intent was to "help" Raffy get to 500/3000 and they knew that steroids had helped their performance?

Right, and I understand that. But to say that someone was "set up" implies that they were up to no good.

[Can_of_corn]

Yea, I got nuthin if folks think that it was a deliberate plot to harm him.

[Frobby]

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/03/wait-someone-has-evidence-that-rafael-palmeiro-really-was-clean-and-is-unwilling-to-do-anything-about-it/

Interesting. I'm a lawyer, have lived in Maryland most of my life, and never heard there was no statute of limitations on felonies in Maryland. Still, I can't imagine a prosecutor pursuing a 7 year old case against a baseball player for something like this.

[El Gordo]

All I know is if i were Raffy, I would have been extraordinarily careful as to what went into my body after wagging my finger at that hearing. I'd drink nothing but water filtered through a Brita about five times, free range chicken with NO HORMONES and grass fed beef from cows that I slaughtered myself.

For those of you who are saying that he was "set up"....who was he "set up" by? Who'd do such a nefarious thing? It's like you guys are Angela Landsbury and this is a case of Murder She Wrote.

I have heard there were some players who didn't care for Raffy because of some alleged hanky panky with other player's wives. Could be a motive. IMO it had more to do with some screw up in the collecting/testing process. The fact that they gave players several hours warning before they collected specimens, tells me their protocols were nothing like they are today, and if Braun can still get off because of screw ups, no telling what could have happened with Raffy. I find it hard to believe that after pointig his fingure at Congress, he would knowingly take a crude steroid, and then given the opportunity to use a masking agent, not do so. Stop usung it after he tests positive and then after he stops andit is out of his system, he starts hitting. Doesn't add up to me.

[Can_of_corn]

Interesting. I'm a lawyer, have lived in Maryland most of my life, and never heard there was no statute of limitations on felonies in Maryland. Still, I can't imagine a prosecutor pursuing a 7 year old case against a baseball player for something like this.

Steroid cases make prosecutors do stupid things. I don't think the Bonds or Clemens cases were worth bringing to court.

[Ohfan67]

I wish I believed that he was duped or there was a mistake. Raffy was one of my favorite players and I was heartbroken to hear the news.

Unfortunately, Canseco seemed to be telling the truth far more than anyone wanted to believe at the time or even wants to believe now. It's obvious that PED use was incredibly widespread and that only a very, very few got caught or implicated in the various investigations. A lot of players were putting up amazing stats. Now...not so much. I believe that Raffy was just unfortunate enough to get caught. Ironic because there were players on that team that have now admitted to taking PED's that didn't get caught. But in the end Raffy took steroids and he got caught.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Steroid cases make prosecutors do stupid things. I don't think the Bonds or Clemens cases were worth bringing to court.

The decision to prosecute both really wasn't about steroids. Tons of people involved in steroid investigations were never prosecuted for anything.

[Brosnan27]

Just think of all the unfortunate souls who have tested positive that were either tricked or didn't know what they were taking. I think the percentage of people who actually knew they were taking a banned substance stands at something around 5%.