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Roch: Tigers covet Hardy

ChaosLex

By ChaosLex
in Orioles Talk

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andrewrickli Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

andrewrickli

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Sounds sarcastic. However, Morse is a better MOO bat than Reynolds would have been. I was for re-signing Reynolds but if Morse is someone DD thinks he can get, I can see how he is trying to improve the team.

Upton IMO would be a better investment over time. Seeing as how he has the potential to be an MVP-type player.

Morse and Upton both have career OPS's in the .830's but the only difference is that Upton is 25 and Morse is 30.

Of course, you won't have to give up nearly as much to get Morse, and if I'm DD I'm not giving up a lot because we don't NEED Morse.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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He's got a lifetime 126 OPS+. For comparison purposes, Upton's got a 117 OPS+. And in Upton's 4th place MVP season, Morse had a beeter OPS (and was 19th in the MVP voting). Obviously, everyone would rather have Upton because of his age and upside, but Morse is a better hitter who would significantly improve the O's, and wouldn't cost anywhere near what Upton would cost - in terms of players to trade and dollars to pay - meaning the O's would have more resources available to improve the team elsewhere.

I think it's very difficult to argue that Morse is a better offensive player going forward given his and Upton's age, his track record, and his profile. If I were betting on who will have the better offensive 2013 I'd have no problem going with Upton.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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The O's are in right now mode also. Yankees and Red Sox are off from their normal elite status and Tampa just traded Shields. Meanwhile many of the O's player are reaching their prime. Time to go for it.

The O's might be in win now mode, but it's not what we'd typically think of as a win now string of acquisitions. The O's appear to be in the same win now mode as Tampa - doing what they can to improve within some fairly strict budget guidelines, with further strictures imposed by a shallow minor league system.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I guess I am not understanding how we traded Bedard and Miggy and Guts and were immediately better off, but now JJ Hardy is suddenly too crucial to the 2013 to be dealt.

I also have a tough time understanding folks mentioning some sort of "win now" mode when we should always be in "make the organization better" mode - even if it means taking a step back in 2013 for the major league team's win column - though I emphatically note that dealing Hardy does not necessarily mean our major league team will be worse.

How were we "immediately better off" when we traded Miggy and Bedard? We won 69 games in 2007 (their last year here), and did not win that many again until 2011. But in any event, as a 69-win team, we clearly needed to do what benefited the team in the longer run. The calculus is different when you are coming off a 93-win season and have a core of players who will be in their prime the next 2-3 years. Obviously I am not saying Hardy (or anyone else) is untouchable, but losing him is likely to weaken our defense at both positions on the left side of the infield, and so there has to be a damned good reason for doing so.

By the way, I have little doubt that Machado can be a solid defensive SS. He's still going to be a step down from Hardy, especially in the first year or two. And it's highly likely the new 3B won't be as good as Machado was there.

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

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He's got a lifetime 126 OPS+. For comparison purposes, Upton's got a 117 OPS+. And in Upton's 4th place MVP season, Morse had a beeter OPS (and was 19th in the MVP voting). Obviously, everyone would rather have Upton because of his age and upside, but Morse is a better hitter who would significantly improve the O's, and wouldn't cost anywhere near what Upton would cost - in terms of players to trade and dollars to pay - meaning the O's would have more resources available to improve the team elsewhere.

The reason Morse would not cost as much as Upton in trade/dollars is that Morse is not as good at the game of baseball as is Upton.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Trading Hardy would be madness unless there is an insane steal to be had.

Hardy is a gold glove shortstop with pop and smarts.

He had some bad offensive moments last year, but he's still; among the best shortstops in baseball as a total package.

Porcello has largely been a disappointment and anything from the Cubs seems redundant. We have better young pitching and a solid shortstop. We need a good MOO bat and a second baseman with an additional innings eater pitcher, not a 3 year

deal for Joe Saunders either.

Last season was not the only down offensive year Hardy has had. His bat is inconsistent, his approach poor.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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And Upton plays a more valuable position, and Upton is like five years younger, and Upton looks fantastic in a baseball uniform, and so on...

“We go into the offseason every year with a plan. The question is just how early in the offseason you have to rip it up and scramble. It’s important to be adaptive and have guys that think creatively, which we do. So there are so many different ways that the offseason can play out that being prepared on many different fronts is key.”

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/gms-must-adjust-midway-through-winter-1.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#KAyWQ9uTckdtP102.99

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