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Orioles drop demand for Jay Bruce


ChaosLex

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What if teams say, "We know you 'have' to get rid of Bedard, so we're going to offer a couple 'C' prospects and salary dumps"?

That's the problem with a blanket statement like, "We HAVE to trade Bedard, now." And it is why statements like MacPhail's about Bedard being our Opening Day starter are made.

We want to trade him, but we want to get something of equal/greater value to us in return.

His demands are too high though...No one has jumped at the ridiculous demands..He needs to be realistic before the oppurtunities pass him by.

First it was, we didn't see the Kuroda signing coming...What is going to be the next excuse?

Maybe if he would have been realistic and asked for LaRoche, Hu and Kemp, the deal would have been made....But it seems like he wanted Kemp AND Kershaw...That wasn't realistic.

Tim Kurkijian recently said he didn't believe the Orioles really wanted to deal Bedard because of what they were asking for in return...I think that statement speaks volumes.

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His demands are too high though...No one has jumped at the ridiculous demands..He needs to be realistic before the oppurtunities pass him by.

First it was, we didn't see the Kuroda signing coming...What is going to be the next excuse?

Maybe if he would have been realistic and asked for LaRoche, Hu and Kemp, the deal would have been made....But it seems like he wanted Kemp AND Kershaw...That wasn't realistic.

Tim Kurkijian recently said he didn't believe the Orioles really wanted to deal Bedard because of what they were asking for in return...I think that statement speaks volumes.

I agree with your point to some extent. In negotiations, you must start high and work your way down to the middle. I think Kuroda came into the picture before they could meet in the middle. Nothing wrong with asking too much, but there is if you're not willing to budge.

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Hopefully this hasn't been mentioned in another thread already...

"John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer says the Orioles have backed off on their demand for Jay Bruce from the Reds in a Bedard deal. He says they still require three top prospects, who would probably be Homer Bailey, Johnny Cueto, and Joey Votto."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/orioles-may-hol.html

I think this is a mistake, especially since they already traded away Josh Hamilton.

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First off let me say what a class act some on this board are.Asking if I ever made it to class,my GOD this is a message board folks.Not a news paper were everything has to be spelled correct and in proper form.Please act like it.I dont have the time to sit and worry about if I spelled every word correct or if I typed a runon sentence.And the fact that half the posters on these boards do flat out scare me,get a life.

Now to the poster who said playing D-1 baseball doesnt make me a expert.You are correct it doesnt.But I am a die hard Reds fan who has watched EE play probably 50 games over the last 3 years.I would like to know how many games have you watched him play live.Im going to guess 0, am I right.I thought so.I was just trying to agree with most on here about EEs D and how bad it was the first 2 years he played for the Reds.But some will not listen.Last year he improved by leaps and bounds.If you would have seen him play the 15 or so games last I did you would agree.This is why I said you cant go by what fat old tired guys write down about numbers.Watch and see no matter if EE is with the Reds or another team his defense will not be bad at all next season.He has improved his D alot and should get the credit for working hard and improving his D.But instead a guy over at a O's board is saying how bad he plays.Just reserve your judgemnet until you have seen the improvment,please.

Now I still think that Bedard gets traded to the Reds before next season starts.I still didnt check my spelling or grammer.Maybe a english teacher or a newspaper editor can go over my post and correct everything.

Also you can come over to my University of Kentucky basketball message I have and correct my posts there.Hey maybe this can turn into a job for you.I could probably find a correcting mod spot for you over there at wildcatsthunder.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all who post on these boards.

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If the deal of Cueto or Bailey/Votto/Stubbs is actually on the table, MacPhail should be on it immediately. That's the kind of trade that revitalizes an organization.

Oh and the people who are saying we should add Millar to the package to try get back more are forgetting that the Reds have their own version of Millar: Hatteberg. So there's really no reason they would want Millar. Bradford, on the other hand, would have some real appeal for them, considering how his groundball ways would fit that park...

So Votto wouldn't need to be replaced?

Millar I think would have some value. But if Bradford would help to seal the deal instead, fine by me. I like the guy, and he can be very useful, but obviously he isn't in the long term plans.

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First off let me say what a class act some on this board are.Asking if I ever made it to class,my GOD this is a message board folks.Not a news paper were everything has to be spelled correct and in proper form.Please act like it.I dont have the time to sit and worry about if I spelled every word correct or if I typed a runon sentence.And the fact that half the posters on these boards do flat out scare me,get a life.

Now to the poster who said playing D-1 baseball doesnt make me a expert.You are correct it doesnt.But I am a die hard Reds fan who has watched EE play probably 50 games over the last 3 years.I would like to know how many games have you watched him play live.Im going to guess 0, am I right.I thought so.I was just trying to agree with most on here about EEs D and how bad it was the first 2 years he played for the Reds.But some will not listen.Last year he improved by leaps and bounds.If you would have seen him play the 15 or so games last I did you would agree.This is why I said you cant go by what fat old tired guys write down about numbers.Watch and see no matter if EE is with the Reds or another team his defense will not be bad at all next season.He has improved his D alot and should get the credit for working hard and improving his D.But instead a guy over at a O's board is saying how bad he plays.Just reserve your judgemnet until you have seen the improvment,please.

Now I still think that Bedard gets traded to the Reds before next season starts.I still didnt check my spelling or grammer.Maybe a english teacher or a newspaper editor can go over my post and correct everything.

Also you can come over to my University of Kentucky basketball message I have and correct my posts there.Hey maybe this can turn into a job for you.I could probably find a correcting mod spot for you over there at wildcatsthunder.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all who post on these boards.

I think more people on this board take issue with the arrogance you enter this forum with. Who cares if you played D1 ball? Almost all the posters on here are willing to have an intelligent debate about things. However, when you have 19 posts to your credit and tout yourself, be ready for criticism.

You ask people not to make haste judgements, yet you pass a misinformed judgement that all "numbers" guys are fat,old and tired. The moderators on this board do not put up with trolls, so if you want to discuss things then be adult about it.

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First off let me say what a class act some on this board are.Asking if I ever made it to class,my GOD this is a message board folks.Not a news paper were everything has to be spelled correct and in proper form.Please act like it.I dont have the time to sit and worry about if I spelled every word correct or if I typed a runon sentence.And the fact that half the posters on these boards do flat out scare me,get a life.

Now to the poster who said playing D-1 baseball doesnt make me a expert.You are correct it doesnt.But I am a die hard Reds fan who has watched EE play probably 50 games over the last 3 years.I would like to know how many games have you watched him play live.Im going to guess 0, am I right.I thought so.I was just trying to agree with most on here about EEs D and how bad it was the first 2 years he played for the Reds.But some will not listen.Last year he improved by leaps and bounds.If you would have seen him play the 15 or so games last I did you would agree.This is why I said you cant go by what fat old tired guys write down about numbers.Watch and see no matter if EE is with the Reds or another team his defense will not be bad at all next season.He has improved his D alot and should get the credit for working hard and improving his D.But instead a guy over at a O's board is saying how bad he plays.Just reserve your judgemnet until you have seen the improvment,please.

Now I still think that Bedard gets traded to the Reds before next season starts.I still didnt check my spelling or grammer.Maybe a english teacher or a newspaper editor can go over my post and correct everything.

Also you can come over to my University of Kentucky basketball message I have and correct my posts there.Hey maybe this can turn into a job for you.I could probably find a correcting mod spot for you over there at wildcatsthunder.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all who post on these boards.

Actually, this board is held to a higher standard and part of the board rules is to do exactly what you were just saying you didn't have time to do.

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Now to the poster who said playing D-1 baseball doesnt make me a expert.You are correct it doesnt.But I am a die hard Reds fan who has watched EE play probably 50 games over the last 3 years.I would like to know how many games have you watched him play live.Im going to guess 0, am I right.I thought so.I was just trying to agree with most on here about EEs D and how bad it was the first 2 years he played for the Reds.But some will not listen.Last year he improved by leaps and bounds.If you would have seen him play the 15 or so games last I did you would agree.This is why I said you cant go by what fat old tired guys write down about numbers.Watch and see no matter if EE is with the Reds or another team his defense will not be bad at all next season.He has improved his D alot and should get the credit for working hard and improving his D.But instead a guy over at a O's board is saying how bad he plays.Just reserve your judgemnet until you have seen the improvment,please.

1) Sometimes we put spaces after periods. It helps people read.

2) I love watching fat, old, tired guys write down about numbers. My favorite is when they write stories about "782." That one gets me every time.

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I doubt that Hamilton would have been traded if the Reds had any reason to believe that he would have helped to seal the deal.

Maybe, then again maybe the Reds have simply decided to go in another direction. Until we know for sure what offers were made and what offers were just rampant speculation, and we may never ever know that, the rest is just guesswork.

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Maybe, then again maybe the Reds have simply decided to go in another direction. Until we know for sure what offers were made and what offers were just rampant speculation, and we may never ever know that, the rest is just guesswork.

It also sounds like AM might not have been interested in him due to perceived character issues. I'm not so sure that Hamilton was a piece that would help get that deal done at all. But, like you said, it's just a guess.

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It also sounds like AM might not have been interested in him due to perceived character issues. I'm not so sure that Hamilton was a piece that would help get that deal done at all. But, like you said, it's just a guess.

It really bugs me that MacPhail passed up on Milledge and Hamilton, because of perceived "character issues."

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First, just because this reporter is saying it, doesn't make it true. So much BS gets spewed this time of year, it's hard to know what's legit and what's not.

Second, I hope it is BS. IMO, Bedard is a bonafide #1, and trading for a guy like that requires parting with top prospects. If the Reds want him, that means giving up Bruce, IMO.

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Here is what we know about EE...The Reds sent him down because they were upset over his defense at third.

Actually that's not true either, he was actually sent down because he was struggling offensively at the time. We knew his defense was a work in progress and his defense was actually about as good then as it was later in the season. But he came out early in the season and seemed to be just going through the motions in his offensive approach (hitting and baserunning).

The #'s do suggest that he actually does lack range which I will be honest I was surprised by that because he doesn't seem to with the eye, so it very well could be positioning (haven't seen too many games in person for awhile) which doesn't always necc. show up on T.V. That actually wouldn't surprise me, because I am not the biggest fan of alot of the coaches we have employed in recent years, who do not appear to be helping much IMO.

However Encarnacion is a guy who isn't a bad hitter and will likely be a solid .280 -.290 guy who has a knack for driving in runs (Tony Perez). I expect in his prime he will be somewhere around .290 .360 .500, who will hit about 25 HR's and 35-40 DBls and a 100ish RBI. His erratic arm has gotten better and probably will improve a touch more with a better target than a 6 ft 1st basemen with T-Rex arms (Hatteberg). If he had a guy like Derek Lee over there his errors probably would have been cut in half again. But looking at his errors compared to the so-called gold-glove peers he has (David Wright, Zimmerman etc.) he's not anything unusual over there.

I am always a bit optimistic when discussing Reds players however I usually base that on a combination of things and not just on one.

That said I would expect that we would be hesitant in trading him unless he was #2 in the deal and that would even be iffy. Not necc. due to his talent and now fair big league experience, but moreso because of how that hurt's our current clubs chances. Sure Keppinger could play there and Freel can also to a lesser extent (doesn't always throw well on bunts down the line) but they are more top of the lineup guys (Freel a #1 type and Kepp a #2) whereas EE (That's what Reds fans call him) provides some protection behind Griffey, Dunn etc. and as Heather pointed out he is 1 of 2 RH bat's that produce fair #'s who will be regular starters (The other being Phillips).

I do feel that EE is a guy who's value lies right around the realm of Votto so either would likely be a #2 in a deal. Again it's unlikely but not completely out of the question based on the rest of the package. I see it pretty close to the way most here see it.

Bailey/Cueto (Probably Bailey)

Votto

and based on the value of #3, a #4 could be a possibility.

Stubbs

or

Lutz and Janish/Loo/Jo. Castro (That's Jose BTW and not Juan who we couldn't dump if we tried)

BTW I put Castro (SS AA) in there because if I recall correctly he's a solid defender and although doesn't have top power or a high BB rate he does seem to be able to actually hit some. I kind of think of him as Luis Castillo at SS with less speed. I don't think Wayne wants to deal Stubbs however I think if he's the #3 in a 3 for 1 deal he probably would cave.

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