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Roch: Showalter comments on Bourn's availability


ChaosLex

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And what agenda would that be since your making stuff up? And can you ever post without taking shots? God you must be bitter.
I often post without taking shots.And I'm not bitter I enjoy playing Santa Claus. I just grow impatient with sillyness and stupidity. There is nothing in that statement from Buck that can be extrapolated to indicate any differences with DD, and any interest in Bourn. He does not cite any ways that Bourn could help the team, but rather cites all the ways his addition could effect the team in negative ways. It seems so clear to me and others, that this was what he was saying, that projection on your part could be the only explanation I could see for your not being able to understand that.
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I often post without taking shots.And I'm not bitter I enjoy playing Santa Claus. I just grow impatient with sillyness and stupidity. There is nothing in that statement from Buck that can be extrapolated to indicate any differences with DD, and any interest in Bourn. He does not cite any ways that Bourn could help the team, but rather cites all the ways his addition could effect the team in negative ways. It seems so clear to me and others, that this was what he was saying, that projection on your part could be the only explanation I could see for your not being able to understand that.

I asked what agenda you was referring to. Shocking you didn't answer that part. Buck isn't going to come out and say he doesn't like certain guys. But if you really believe Buck is 100% confident in Reimold, then don't know what to tell you. When you play Santa, do you atleast grow a real beard, instead of those corny and obvious fake ones?

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I asked what agenda you was referring to. Shocking you didn't answer that part. Buck isn't going to come out and say he doesn't like certain guys. But if you really believe Buck is 100% confident in Reimold, then don't know what to tell you. When you play Santa, do you atleast grow a real beard, instead of those corny and obvious fake ones?
This is my most current incarnation as Santa.elf-001

As to your agenda, usually when people project they do it subconsciously. I would suspect you are one of the PA is a miserly old skinsflint/DD is handcuffed by his budgetary constraints/Buck wants to win but can't because we wont spend, people. Why would you think Bourn would be a help to this team? Why do you think Buck thinks so?

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This is my most current incarnation as Santa.elf-001

As to your agenda, usually when people project they do it subconsciously. I would suspect you are one of the PA is a miserly old skinsflint/DD is handcuffed by his budgetary constraints/Buck wants to win but can't because we wont spend, people. Why would you think Bourn would be a help to this team? Why do you think Buck thinks so?

Can't win? FYI, he already did!I will leave it at that.

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Bourne has no bat. All of his value is either defense or base running.

When you're arguably the top guy in the game at those two things not named Mike Trout, you don't need much of a bat to be an extremely effective player.

For reference, Kenny Lofton was pretty consistently a ~110 OPS+ guy and he's one of the best players ever to fall off the HOF ballot in the first year. A great example of how these guys get overlooked.

Even if Bourn is only about a ~100 OPS+ guy, he's over a 4 win player. He's that good on the bases and in the field.

The better question is whether or not Bourn holds up like Kenny Lofton or like Chone Figgins. He's just turned 30. Chone Figgins' last good season was his age 31 season before falling off the face of the earth. He's an extreme example, but definitely a noteworthy one.

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Come on now. Any comparison between McLouth and Bourn is ridiculous, regardless of what spot in the OF either plays.

Assuming they platoon McLouth with someone like Reimold, what does Bourn do in LF that makes it worth signing him to what it would cost to sign him - especially given that McLouth and Reimold are already on the payroll. And don't just say - Oh come on; you know Bourn is so much better, blalblabla. Tell me what he would do in LF that would make the O's so much better - given that he's probably going to make over (and perhaps significantly over) 10 mil a year for at least 3 years.

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Bourn turned down 13 M so he wants more than that. He also costs a first round pick. To maximize his value you have to move AJ to LF. While I believe he would do this he would not be a happy camper. Also you would have to release Roberts and eat his 10M because unless he is a #1 hitter he has little value to the club. Also you will relegate Reimold to about 200 PA as the RH DH. Why would you do this? Bourn isn't likely to be worth that much. He's on the other side of 30 , has so so OBP, and doesn't hit for power. Great CF defense and SB %. Whoop de doo. Check out McLouth's SB % last year. Not too shabby.

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Bourn turned down 13 M so he wants more than that. He also costs a first round pick. To maximize his value you have to move AJ to LF. While I believe he would do this he would not be a happy camper. Also you would have to release Roberts and eat his 10M because unless he is a #1 hitter he has little value to the club. Also you will relegate Reimold to about 200 PA as the RH DH. Why would you do this? Bourn isn't likely to be worth that much. He's on the other side of 30 , has so so OBP, and doesn't hit for power. Great CF defense and SB %. Whoop de doo. Check out McLouth's SB % last year. Not too shabby.

If Roberts doesn't bat first you have to release him? Why? Whether he is released or not depends on whether or not he is hitting well enough to start, not whether or not he is hitting well enough to bat first if there are better candidates on the roster.

Kinsler bats first on the Rangers, I believe. He's a leadoff hitter getting paid more than Roberts does. If they sign Bourn do they have to release him too?

I do agree with you that McLouth is a great basestealer, although he doesn't run as frequently as Bourn. But Bourn doesn't necessarily have to remove McLouth from the lineup if Jones moves to RF (a better position for him than LF, IMO) and Markakis to 1B or DH (also better positions for him than RF, IMO).

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If Roberts doesn't bat first you have to release him? Why? Whether he is released or not depends on whether or not he is hitting well enough to start, not whether or not he is hitting well enough to bat first if there are better candidates on the roster.

Kinsler bats first on the Rangers, I believe. He's a leadoff hitter getting paid more than Roberts does. If they sign Bourn do they have to release him too?

I do agree with you that McLouth is a great basestealer, although he doesn't run as frequently as Bourn. But Bourn doesn't necessarily have to remove McLouth from the lineup if Jones moves to RF (a better position for him than LF, IMO) and Markakis to 1B or DH (also better positions for him than RF, IMO).

Roberts value is as a lead off hitter. If he is not getting on base and stealing bases he has little use to the team. He is a below average defender. We have better options than Roberts if he is not hitting at least a .340 OBP.
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Roberts value is as a lead off hitter. If he is not getting on base and stealing bases he has little use to the team. He is a below average defender. We have better options than Roberts if he is not hitting at least a .340 OBP.

Valuable #9 hitters have the exact same skillset as valuable leadoff hitters. Hypothetically, say Roberts returns to form and has a .340 OPB and steals 30 bases. Think the Orioles would be happy they released him in spring training because they got a better leadoff hitter?

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Valuable #9 hitters have the exact same skillset as valuable leadoff hitters. Hypothetically, say Roberts returns to form and has a .340 OPB and steals 30 bases. Think the Orioles would be happy they released him in spring training because they got a better leadoff hitter?
If Roberts could put up those numbers he would be the lead off hitter. Bourn's .339 OB and 50 SB wouldn't justify the 15M, plus the pick you would have to give up, Iif Roberts were putting up those numbers. Roberts defense wouldn't justify him as a #9 hitter. Casilla would be a better option.
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If Roberts could put up those numbers he would be the lead off hitter. Bourn's .339 OB and 50 SB wouldn't justify the 15M, plus the pick you would have to give up, Iif Roberts were putting up those numbers. Roberts defense wouldn't justify him as a #9 hitter. Casilla would be a better option.

Over the past 4 seasons, excluding his first full season, Bourn has nearly a .350 OBP. But that's beside the point.

If Roberts is good he will play. If he is not he won't. All that matters for if Roberts gets cut is if he is better than Casilla. It has nothing to do with his lineup position and whether or not Bourn is on the team.

Do you think that if we don't sign Bourn, Roberts will be leading off? I don't see it with McLouth and Markakis on the team. Unless he tears apart ST, I think Roberts is starting OD batting ninth, or not starting at all.

Bottom line is that you think lineup position is extremely important, apparently. Showalter probably agrees with you more than I would like. Agree to disagree.

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The problem with keeping Roberts around is the temptation to keep giving him more chances even though it looks like he's done. Granted, he got only 70 or so plate appearances, but he didn't show any pop at all. If he didn't get injured yet again, they probably would have kept him in the lineup all year. And he's a bad 2nd baseman defensively - poor range and a wet noodle for an arm. And he's not a base-stealing threat, anymore. There's no upside in playing him. But there's loyalty for the work he's put in and his history, and that's what has Buck giving him shot after shot - despite the evidence that he's almost certainly not going to be an effective baseball player, anymore.

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