Latest Roch ...

[The Wedge]

That was so awesome how you bolded and took umbridge with the part of his post that caveats itself with "tongue in cheek."

The awesomeness! My eyes!

[Sports Guy]

That was so awesome how you bolded and took umbridge with the part of his post that caveats itself with "tongue in cheek."

The awesomeness! My eyes!

The difference is he believes that to be true and has had that argument for months....So while he said tongue and cheek, he uses it as some kind of valid reason and has been conssitent with that.

[TinCup]

I am begging...

ENUFF already of this LH madness. Please.

[The Wedge]

I am begging...

ENUFF already of this LH madness. Please.

I think what you're saying is...Enuff Z'Nuff?

[The Wedge]

The difference is he believes that to be true and has had that argument for months....So while he said tongue and cheek, he uses it as some kind of valid reason and has been conssitent with that.

It was still awesome that you chose to zero in on that, to isolate and attack a point he quantified so.

[RShack]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen where you're promoting LH based on offensive capabilities. In fact, you've seem to be bally-hooing his defensive skills with a side comment that you thought his OBP could increase because of the reasons you stated. And all of this is not to say that he should be our starting SS but that in a worst case scenario, he ain't all bad. Is that a fair synopsis?

Thank you ;-)

The only thing I would change about what you said is that I'm not even sure it's "worst case". I see lots of claims about how they can get somebody who is just as good in the field but who will hit significantly better, but I'm not so sure that's really true. If it really is true, then I bet that's what they'll do. But given what the '08 agenda seems to be, unless they can get somebody who's just as good in the field and who has a significantly better bat, I wouldn't mind seeing LH play. I realize that this is heresy around here, but I don't know what choices they might be looking at. Apart from those important unknown details, I agree with having an excellent-D SS, especially with the if-fy kid pitchers who seem to be on the menu.

[clapdiddy]

I think what you're saying is...Enuff Z'Nuff?

Hey....Fly high, Michelle!

[RShack]

Speaking of stats, what sticks out with LH is that at the higher levels he has played at (AAA, MLB) he has combined for 175 at-bats with only ONE BB.

Right. To me, that's just downright bizarre. It's also a contrast from what he did in AA when he was 21, when his OBP was 70 points above his BA. Like I said before, he was never especially great at taking walks, but that total for AAA/ML is just a freaky number. The only way I can make sense of it is that he was just trying too hard. I don't know what else it could be.

[ON BASE %]

Right. To me, that's just downright bizarre. It's also a contrast from what he did in AA when he was 21, when his OBP was 70 points above his BA. Like I said before, he was never especially great at taking walks, but that total for AAA/ML is just a freaky number. The only way I can make sense of it is that he was just trying too hard. I don't know what else it could be.[/QUOTE]

Could it be that LH was overmatched? Could it be that LH's pitch recognition was not AAA or MLB caliber?

I suppose we'll find out a definitive answer if LH gets a few hundred at bats with the Orioles.

[NewMarketSean]

Well, if you're really asking any questions in there, I'd be happy to answer them. My guess is that you're really making a statement about your opinion, and aren't really asking any questions, so I won't bother. Especially since some of the things you pretended to ask have already been answered in previous posts. But if you do have any real questions, I don't mind answering them.

Don't bother to answer it then, because I would probably dismiss it immediately anyway.

[TheWHG]

Jeremy Guthrie: Didn't we get him off waivers from the Indians? So far he's turned out pretty good.

Corey Patterson: Not like he was a superstar or anything, but he was a lot better than Luis Matos out in CF and he cost us basically nothing in trade. A couple of minor leaguers nobody ever heard of.

Trachsel for Cherry and Moore and the PBTNL which I forget who it was now. 3 guys for a pitcher the Orioles were going to possibly dump near the end of the season anyway?

The Orioles are attempting to make some moves like this again in claiming Aquino, picking up a few Rule V guys (one major league Rule V in Beird) and a few other arms in the minor league portion.

The 5 for 1 deal with Tejada for Scott (who might be better than some think if you see he hit 18 homers in about 360AB and has a minor league track record of mashing), Albers, Patton, Sarfate, and Costanzo (bringing much needed depth to 3b in the minors.)

The Orioles have made some pretty good moves in the past, but the bad ones over that same time period seem to stick in peoples' minds more. Milledge had a lot of off the field problems and so did Dukes. Hamilton was a crack user. The teams that took those players on believe they have a strong support system to help these players out. What have you seen from the Orioles players/support system that makes you believe they could keep these players out of trouble? With all the disgruntled players and mentions in the Mitchell report I don't think you want to bring in any players that may currently have, or have troubled pasts here.

[awalt]

I'm only opposed to Hernandez as the "real" option at SS. Mainly because there are probably at least a dozen readidly availble guys with his glove that have a better chance of contributing for an entire season on offense. Not blowing worlds apart, but contributing. But since we're in full rebuild, I have no problem pencilling him in if we get no other return. Having a good glove up the middle will be nice for young pitching.

In rebuilding mode, you don't necessarily target a specific position or two that you MUST fill with someone good, like you would do if you were competing for the crown. To go to the trade market like that, limits the value you can get.

The Orioles need help across the board - bats, defense, speed, and all types of pitching. They also need depth. They also need quality minor leaguers at the AA and AAA level so that potential stars down lower can truly be developed instead of rushed.

So this means you go for the best combination of quantity AND quality that can help anywhere. We need numbers of quality players. If I am Andy McPhail, and for example I can get 3 AA pitchers with potential for middle of the rotation or better vs. getting a starting SS better than LH, I take the three AA pitchers every time even though the parent team might suck a little more this year.

The nice thing about rebuilding though, is they don't have to even worry about whether LH is the "real" option - they have 2-3 years to make that decision as the ball clubs up and down the line are hopefully restocked and developed.

[Mackus]

I'm not getting into the LH controversy, but I do think that this is a good observation in general. Success in the field doesn't happen by chance, and therefore can be consistently repeated. Going deep into the hole to throw out a fast runner isn't a fluke; you have to have good range and a strong arm to do it, and it almost never happens by accident.

But even poor hitters can have hot streaks and look great for a while, therefore the need for a substantial sample size.

I think it is somewhere between naive and wrong to believe that fielders don't go through similar hot and cold streaks just the same as hitters do.

The only difference is the gap between the best fielding and worst fielding players is smaller than the gap between the best and worst hitters. So when a normally slightly above average fielder gets cold and plays like a slightly below average fielder for a few weeks, its not as noticeable as when a normal .850 OPS guy goes two weeks with a .650 OPS.

The slumps and hot streaks for hitters have much higher peaks and lower valleys then the respective hot and cold fielding streaks, IMO, but they follow the same wave pattern.

[Frobby]

Jeremy Guthrie: Didn't we get him off waivers from the Indians? So far he's turned out pretty good.

Corey Patterson: Not like he was a superstar or anything, but he was a lot better than Luis Matos out in CF and he cost us basically nothing in trade. A couple of minor leaguers nobody ever heard of.

Trachsel for Cherry and Moore and the PBTNL which I forget who it was now. 3 guys for a pitcher the Orioles were going to possibly dump near the end of the season anyway?

The Orioles are attempting to make some moves like this again in claiming Aquino, picking up a few Rule V guys (one major league Rule V in Beird) and a few other arms in the minor league portion.

The 5 for 1 deal with Tejada for Scott (who might be better than some think if you see he hit 18 homers in about 360AB and has a minor league track record of mashing), Albers, Patton, Sarfate, and Costanzo (bringing much needed depth to 3b in the minors.)

The Orioles have made some pretty good moves in the past, but the bad ones over that same time period seem to stick in peoples' minds more. Milledge had a lot of off the field problems and so did Dukes. Hamilton was a crack user. The teams that took those players on believe they have a strong support system to help these players out. What have you seen from the Orioles players/support system that makes you believe they could keep these players out of trouble? With all the disgruntled players and mentions in the Mitchell report I don't think you want to bring in any players that may currently have, or have troubled pasts here.

Good first post, reminding us of small moves that turned out well, at least for a while.

[olehippi]

Right. To me, that's just downright bizarre. It's also a contrast from what he did in AA when he was 21, when his OBP was 70 points above his BA. Like I said before, he was never especially great at taking walks, but that total for AAA/ML is just a freaky number. The only way I can make sense of it is that he was just trying too hard. I don't know what else it could be.

Maybe he should have his eyesight checked.....get glasses, like Cabrera did. Oh wait......that didn't help Cabrera see the plate either.....