Do you think Adam Jones would willingly move from CF if we got someone better?

[weams]

Doesn't need to be a better overall player, just needs to improve the team. Bourn in CF would improve the team.

It's ok if I disagree right? I think he is currently redundant. And at the cost of our first round draft choice I think he is actually detrimental to our team in three years.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I agree with this but the improvement wouldn't be significant enough to step on Jones' toes. I'd love to trade for Bourjos, but it just ain't in the cards.

It's ok if I disagree right? I think he is currently redundant. And at the cost of our first round draft choice I think he is actually detrimental to our team in three years.

I disagree that the improvement overall wouldn't potentially be significant with Bourn in CF. I'd actually prefer a short term deal (1-2 year deal) as kind of a stopgap/bridge. That actually could potentailly benefit Bourn as well. If people don't think it's worth an approx # 24 draft pick in a bad draft then I can understand that (not really), but that issue wasn't really being adressed when I made my input. I think there are some further draft implications for the signing team as well.

[sangar]

I don't think it's a matter of ego. I think Jones would resent being moved because he (rightly?) believes he is one of the best CF in the game. Asking him to move would be like the team giving him a no-confidence vote.

[srock]

no don't like bourne.... he's just a rich man's nate mcclouth..

The difference between Bourne and McClouth is consistency. Bourne has been a great CF who puts up league average offense and he has done 5 years running. McLouth has been all over the place.

And the rich man thing.

[Malike]

The difference between Bourne and McClouth is consistency. Bourne has been a great CF who puts up league average offense and he has done 5 years running. McLouth has been all over the place.

And the rich man thing.

He has a career OPS+ of 90, including 86, 57, 97, 89 during the "5 years running", isn't 100 the league average? He's been great defensively, but his offense has been nothing to brag about. I mean, he's a career .704 OPS player, and we're talking about him like he would propel this team over the top. I guess I just don't see it, and I would not like to give up a 1st round pick to get him. Ever.

[srock]

He has a career OPS+ of 90, including 86, 57, 97, 89 during the "5 years running", isn't 100 the league average? He's been great defensively, but his offense has been nothing to brag about. I mean, he's a career .704 OPS player, and we're talking about him like he would propel this team over the top. I guess I just don't see it, and I would not like to give up a 1st round pick to get him. Ever.

I missed that outlier 57.

And no I wouldn't love a first round pick for him, hadn't considered that.

Unless Jones goes down with injury while he is still unsigned...then I might.

[CA-ORIOLE]

He has a career OPS+ of 90, including 86, 57, 97, 89 during the "5 years running", isn't 100 the league average? He's been great defensively, but his offense has been nothing to brag about. I mean, he's a career .704 OPS player, and we're talking about him like he would propel this team over the top. I guess I just don't see it, and I would not like to give up a 1st round pick to get him. Ever.

His average wRC+ (properly weights OBP) is pretty close to 100 (average) the past 4 years. He also has a lot of value in speed/base running.

[hoosiers]

Really not a big fan of the question posed in this thread - considering how it seems directed at Jones specifically. I understand there may be an underlying possibility that perhaps Bourn might be a possibility, but I imagine this sort of question could be asked of anybody on the team. Would Wieters move if a better defensive catcher were available? Would Markakis move? Would Hardy move if MM was a better shortstop?

I don't know Jones so well to understand what sort of "ego" he has and whether that would play a role in whether he would move from CF to LF, but I imagine Jones would be a bit surprised to be told the defense might be better with him in LF considering his two gold gloves, two time team MVP, support of the FO, etc. I think many athletes would be surprised in such a situation - not just an "entering the prime of his career" AJ.

Again, really not a fan of isolating AJ in this manner.

[Norfolk orioles]

Bourne in cf and jones in left would give us one of the most elite defensive outfields in all of Major League Baseball and with bournes base running and run scoring ability, markakis's smooth and steady bat and jones recent long ball binge, we'd have a very talented offensive outfield as well.

And when you combine our 3 starting outfielders defensive ability with their offensive ability/base running ability (jones and Bourne can go 50/20 and maybe even 60/25???

We'd have one of the top all around, balanced outfields in all of Major League Baseball!

Please Dan, make this happen!

[section18]

The only way this would work is if Reimold is going to 1B, DH or being traded. I think AJ likes him and McLouth and views Nate as our LF. If Bourne or AJ is asked to go to LF they will wonder where Nate or Nolan are going to play. I like McLouth because I like the speed game and know it can give you a possible extra run or two every game without much hitting. Walk or single, steal a base, sacrifice to 3B and a deep grounder or a fly out and you have a run. Adding Bourne would be giving you another speed guy that disrupts pitchers routines and allows the hitters to see more fastballs. I do not see AJ making the move to LF because of Nate and Nolan more than Bourne himself and because of the 2nd Gold Glove. The fact that Buck mentioned Bourne on the radio recently is interesting. Maybe there is another deal in the works that would involve Nolan. It would also be great if we could land a 1B who can field that doesn't have to have on the job training that may or may not pan out.

[El Gordo]

Bourn is not signimng here for one year to play LF. The idea of a pillow comtract would be to put up numbedrs and get the big comtract next season. His game revolves around his CF defense. And the O's aren't moving Jones from CF. According to UZR there was close to a 3 W difference between the two in CF and the FB has it at 4W. Does anybody really think Jones is that bad in CF or Bourn is that good? IMO it is closer to a 1 W difference on D. Jones' bat makes up for that.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Bourn is not signimng here for one year to play LF. The idea of a pillow comtract would be to put up numbedrs and get the big comtract next season. His game revolves around his CF defense. And the O's aren't moving Jones from CF. According to UZR there was close to a 3 W difference between the two in CF and the FB has it at 4W. Does anybody really think Jones is that bad in CF or Bourn is that good? IMO it is closer to a 1 W difference on D. Jones' bat makes up for that.

Over a 3-4 year run, you're probably talking about 2-2.5 Wins on defense in CF, and yes that is completely believable to me.

[El Gordo]

Over a 3-4 year run, you're probably talking about 2-2.5 Wins on defense in CF, and yes that is completely believable to me.

He has averaged 8.8 RS over the course of his career. Jones 0.0 according to the FB. Last season he was 24 RS and Jones was -16 RS. I don't think the difference is that great. Especially when looking at their career averages. Last season was a big outlier for Bourn and he is not getting any younger.Given Jones better bat youth, and probable improvement as he enters his prime, I think it makes more sense to stick with Jones in CF and save the 75 M you would have to pay Bourn.

[CA-ORIOLE]

He has averaged 8.8 RS over the course of his career. Jones 0.0 according to the FB. Last season he was 24 RS and Jones was -16 RS. I don't think the difference is that great. Especially when looking at their career averages. Last season was a big outlier for Bourn and he is not getting any younger.Given Jones better bat youth, and probable improvement as he enters his prime, I think it makes more sense to stick with Jones in CF and save the 75 M you would have to pay Bourn.

Over the past 4 years (2009-2012), DRS has Jones at (+2,-7,-4,-13). DRS has Bourn at (+10,+30,-2,+21). Those are rate stats (@ 135 games) for CF. Each typically plays more than than a 135 game in CF.

Jone's 4 year rate total is -22. Bourne's 4 year rate total is +59. Jone's average rate is -5.5. Bourn's average rate is +14.75. That's a difference of approximately 20+ runs/2 Wins. Add more games than 135 and it's incrementally higher.

Using a similar methodology with UZR (@150 game rate), it works out more favorably for Jones at about an approx 18.25 runs/1.8 Win differential.

Averaging rate stats isn't good practice, but in this case with both players playing a high number of games in CF it shouldn't make much of a difference.

[El Gordo]

Over the past 4 years (2009-2012), DRS has Jones at (+2,-7,-4,-13). DRS has Bourn at (+10,+30,-2,+21). Those are rate stats (@ 135 games) for CF. Each typically plays more than than a 135 game in CF.

Jones 4 year rate total is -22. Bourne's 4 year rate total is +59. Jone's average rate is -5.5. Bourn's average rate is +14.75. That's a difference of approximately 20+ runs/2 Wins. Add more games than 135 and it's incrementally higher.

Using a similar methodology with UZR (@150 game), it works out more favorably for Jones at about an approx 18.25 runs/1.8 Win differential.

Averaging rate stats isn't good practice, but in the case with both players playing a high number of games in CF it shouldn't make much of a difference.

Simple question. Do you think Jones UZR numbers are an accurate reflection of his defensive ability, and do you expect Bourn's UZR numbers over the next 3-4 years to be in keeping with his last season's 22.4? I don't in both cases.