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Fake to 3rd then throw to first now illegal


SteveA

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Speeding up the game, since it only actually works .00000000000000000000001% of the time.

But, but, we'll miss the excitement the one time every eight seasons this actually works in an MLB game! I mean, sure, we'll shave hundreds of unneeded minutes from game durations, but... is it really worth it?

(Hint on my opinion: :2yay-thumb::2yay-thumb::2yay-thumb:)

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Speeding up the game, since it only actually works .00000000000000000000001% of the time.

Yes...but now pitchers will just hold the ball or do a different pickoff. I really don't see this speeding up the games at all, and it takes away right-handers' only way to legally deceive a baserunner. I don't really like it, but it's also not something important enough for me to be upset about.

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This may actually slow down the game, IMO. Runners at first will take slightly bigger leads, causing more deliberate play by the pitcher, including more throws to first. Far more throws to first than there would have been under a legal fake to third, legal throw to first move. There is nothing illegal about the fake to third piece, or the throw to first piece. To make the COMBINATION of two legal moves illegal is a mockery, IMO. Additionally, if I understand this, if a pitcher fakes to third and the runner on first starts toward second, the pitcher can only make a play on him if he continues to second? So the runner can just stand there eight feet off the bag singing "Pitcher's got a big butt, pitcher's got a big butt," and that's going to speed up the game? Obviously, the runners at third will also take larger leads, since a fake to third becomes much less likely, further slowing the pitcher's deliver time down.

Why not ban all pick off moves, since they are mostly unsuccessful? Maybe we can ban unassisted triple plays while we are at it, since they are so rare. Yeah, that's the ticket, you can make two legal outs unassisted, but since that third one is so rarely successful, let's just ban it, even though there is nothing illegal about the individual tag play involved. That tag play would just be illegal if made in COMBINATION with two other legal plays.

This rule change has no basis in fair play -- or common sense. If time is your concern, let's just forget all about what Earl Weaver said makes baseball a better game than all the others and just have a game clock, for crying out loud. Just run three plays into the line and run out the clock.

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Speeding up the game, since it only actually works .00000000000000000000001% of the time.

The Orioles won a game last year in large part because Darren O'Day pulled off this move successfully.

"Buck Showalter, hoping for an inning-ending double play, relieved Chen with submariner Darren O'Day. Before even throwing a pitch, O'Day tried the old fake-to-third, throw-to-first pickoff move, unsuccessfully. Oh, Darren. Don't you know that never works? A runner would have to be a complete fool to fall for that. Never in a million years can you pull that off.

O'Day got a huge second out on a Ramirez pop-up, bringing up Dayan Viciedo. And then...sheer hilarity. O'Day for a second time tried the third-to-first pickoff move-- and it worked! Rios bit on the bait and took off for second, and O'Day simply threw to Andino, who placed the tag on a sheepish Rios. Oof. That was some Brett Lawrie-esque baserunning right there, bailing the Orioles out of a huge jam with the lead intact."

http://www.camdenchat.com/2012/4/17/2956499/orioles-3-white-sox-2-making-hawk-harrelson-sad-again

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The Orioles won a game last year in large part because Darren O'Day pulled off this move successfully.

"Buck Showalter, hoping for an inning-ending double play, relieved Chen with submariner Darren O'Day. Before even throwing a pitch, O'Day tried the old fake-to-third, throw-to-first pickoff move, unsuccessfully. Oh, Darren. Don't you know that never works? A runner would have to be a complete fool to fall for that. Never in a million years can you pull that off.

O'Day got a huge second out on a Ramirez pop-up, bringing up Dayan Viciedo. And then...sheer hilarity. O'Day for a second time tried the third-to-first pickoff move-- and it worked! Rios bit on the bait and took off for second, and O'Day simply threw to Andino, who placed the tag on a sheepish Rios. Oof. That was some Brett Lawrie-esque baserunning right there, bailing the Orioles out of a huge jam with the lead intact."

http://www.camdenchat.com/2012/4/17/2956499/orioles-3-white-sox-2-making-hawk-harrelson-sad-again

Here's the highlight (2nd half is O'Day's pickoff): http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20742961&c_id=mlb

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Of all the things to change, this is what they come up with? Something that will have a real impact on, what... four games a season across the whole league?

I'd have preferred they changed the balk rule from the 254-step monstrosity it currently is to something that reads more like "once the pitcher starts his motion towards the plate he can't stop and do crazy *&^%, but otherwise... game on." The balk is supposedly to stop the pitcher from deceiving the baserunner, but isn't the whole point of a pickoff throw to make the baserunner think you're going home when you're not? Yes, the balk rule is one of my pet peeves.

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I like it and never understood why it was legal in the first place. It's pretending to throw 1 direction and then throwing another. To me, there's always been something wrong with a pitcher doing that. And I think 99% of baseball fans that actually watch games would rather watch grass grow than see that play.

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I like it and never understood why it was legal in the first place. It's pretending to throw 1 direction and then throwing another. To me, there's always been something wrong with a pitcher doing that. And I think 99% of baseball fans that actually watch games would rather watch grass grow than see that play.

Is it the legal fake to third or the legal throw to first that you don't understand? The rule really isn't that complex, and the "understanding" of it is not the issue at all for MLB. This is an ill-conceived idea to attempt to speed up the game, nothing more, and has no basis in fair play. As I said earlier, I think it will actually end up slowing the game down due to more pick off throws to first and stepping off the runner by the pitcher, while at the same time creating a situation where each move is legal, but doing one after the other in combination is somehow not, creating a really bad rule. You can either fake to third, or not. You can either throw to first, or not. Doing the one, or not, should have no bearing whatsoever on the legality of doing the other.

This play really doesn't happen nearly as much as is being made out here. I think some of the comments are more a case of some folks not really understanding what a balk is (or isn't), so they want to eliminate the rules, rather than learn them. Frankly, this move happens far more often in high school and rec ball than in MLB, and High School Federation isn't going to arbitrarily change the rule. Hey, why not just go to the U-10 rule and require no leading until the pitch crosses the plate? That's easy to understand and you would have no balk rule at all.

I predict this will last one season.

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This is an ill-conceived idea to attempt to speed up the game, nothing more, and has no basis in fair play. As I said earlier, I think it will actually end up slowing the game down due to more pick off throws to first and stepping off the runner by the pitcher, while at the same time creating a situation where each move is legal, but doing one after the other in combination is somehow not, creating a really bad rule.

I think there is some validity in attempts to speed up the game, although there aren't enough pickoff attempts that this (or even eliminating pickoffs altogether) would shave a minute off the game.

It is an oversight in the rules that they allow the pitcher a limited number of pitches to the plate before punishing him with a walk, but place no limits at all on the number of pickoff attempts. I think I'd be in favor of setting a limit on pickoffs of any kind, and that incentivizing baserunning is probably a good thing.

This play really doesn't happen nearly as much as is being made out here. I think some of the comments are more a case of some folks not really understanding what a balk is (or isn't), so they want to eliminate the rules, rather than learn them. Frankly, this move happens far more often in high school and rec ball than in MLB, and High School Federation isn't going to arbitrarily change the rule. Hey, why not just go to the U-10 rule and require no leading until the pitch crosses the plate? That's easy to understand and you would have no balk rule at all.

Does anyone really understand the balk rule in its entirety? Have you read the thing? There are prohibitions against pitching when you're not facing the batter. There is a clarifying statements stressing the rule is all about not deceiving the runner, but most called balks have nothing to do with deception. For God knows what reason it's actually a balk if you throw an intentional ball and the catcher isn't in the catcher's box. If the pitcher delays the game "unnecessarily" it's a balk. I'm fairly sure 75% of the balk rule hasn't been called in my lifetime.

I predict this will last one season.

I doubt it's even noticed, much less overturned. The announcers may mention once in a while that they changed the rule, but otherwise it'll essentially have no impact on gameplay.

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