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AL East players linked to PED clinic (Yankee and new Blue Jay)


ChaosLex

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Considering how direct ARod/Gio were to say this is entirely false (that being the decided course of action by their high priced advisers), suspect this ends up closer to a Ryan Braun situation than BALCO - i.e., everyone knows they roided, but it 'officially' goes down as a failure of evidence.

The BALCO scandal was supported by actual used syringes and a federal investigation while the activity was still taking place. The Miami stuff is apparently based around a handwritten notebook from a questionable doctor for a clinic that no longer exists.

Unless more evidence surfaces or one of the 'accused' changes their tune, not sure there's enough here for any kind of action.

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This is what I said back in October and got some people wanting to argue with me, but I will repeat it.
Exactly right. No agrument from me. And when you look at the miniscule odds of getting caught, compared to the huge potential financial reward, it's easy to see why so many players do it.
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Uhm, no. You need to look closer at the history of Hall of Fame voting. One does not need to be anywhere near the class of Bonds or Clemens to be a first ballot HOFer. Kirby Puckett was a first ballot HOFer. So was Robin Yount, and Dave Winfield. I could go on and on. When he retired just about every list of the best players of all time (Sporting News, Bill James, the All-Century Team) had McGwire on it. He would have been in the HOF in the first year, if there's no PED issue. Sosa almost certainly would have also. The guy hit over 600 home runs. There was no way the voters would overlook that.

I know COC is a small Hall guy, but I have to agree, even in a small Hall I think all of those guys would have been in....I understand the argument, but Raffy, McGwire and Sosa all were dominant players during their time...at least for a 10 year stretch and I think that is what Rosenthal and others have used a baseline for entry.

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Considering how direct ARod/Gio were to say this is entirely false (that being the decided course of action by their high priced advisers), suspect this ends up closer to a Ryan Braun situation than BALCO - i.e., everyone knows they roided, but it 'officially' goes down as a failure of evidence.

The BALCO scandal was supported by actual used syringes and a federal investigation while the activity was still taking place. The Miami stuff is apparently based around a handwritten notebook from a questionable doctor for a clinic that no longer exists.

Unless more evidence surfaces or one of the 'accused' changes their tune, not sure there's enough here for any kind of action.

They always swear they are clean. Until they ain't.

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As delightful as it is to see the Yankees suffer under the A-Rod contract,for once I'm rooting for them to find a way to make his contract null and void.

You want to get PED's out of the game. Start hitting them in the pocketbook. That is the only way a message will get through to them.

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As delightful as it is to see the Yankees suffer under the A-Rod contract,for once I'm rooting for them to find a way to make his contract null and void.

You want to get PED's out of the game. Start hitting them in the pocketbook. That is the only way a message will get through to them.

I'm sorry but the Yankees need to learn a lesson as well. Which is to not throw money around like they're playing Monopoly. For years they have outbid other teams for the services of the best players in the game and for obscene amounts of money. They've also been pretty fortunate that more contracts haven't bitten them in the butt. So this type of bad luck is long overdue IMO. Whatever the Yankees have to end up eating is fine by me!

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http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2013/01/07/sosa-is-a-marginal-hall-candidate/

Even with the prodigious home run totals and the fact that he was a much better defender than most people probably remember, Sosa finished his career with a total fWAR of “just” 64.1, good for 120th all-time amongst position players, and wedging Sosa directly in between Norm Cash and Bill Dickey on the all-time leaderboard. I’m not saying that WAR should be the end all be all of the discussion, or even a vital part of it, but as far as starting points go, that’s pretty damning for a guy in the 600 home run club. To put it in context, Ken Griffey Jr. logged 83.9 wins above replacement, even with the sudden drop his career trajectory took after he went to Cincinnati, and Frank Thomas notched an impressive 76.2 fWAR despite copious time spent as a DH, and costing his team just shy of 70 runs with his defense, according to Fangraphs.
his case is made almost entirely between 1998 and 2003, a period during which, for whatever reason, home run totals were wildly inflated all over baseball. I don’t want to totally besmirch Sosa here, but if you take out the period of time between 1998-2003, he only hit 40 home runs one time, and has just two seasons with 5+ fWAR.

600+ home runs is impressive, even in a high offense era but Sosa didn't do much else.

I feel similarly about McGwire with the added caveat that time missed to injuries probably made the difference in my mind.

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I'm sorry but the Yankees need to learn a lesson as well. Which is to not throw money around like they're playing Monopoly. For years they have outbid other teams for the services of the best players in the game and for obscene amounts of money. They've also been pretty fortunate that more contracts haven't bitten them in the butt. So this type of bad luck is long overdue IMO. Whatever the Yankees have to end up eating is fine by me!

While I would typically agree with you on this, for the past 2 years I have been saying that Hank is running this team differently the George did. George didnt care what the cost was, just pay it and win. Hank seems to be running things a bit more typical and havent made a single contract that has been a big name player the last 2 years that I can remember. I am not saying that I dont want them to go down in flames, but if some how Arod and the Yankees both suffered I would be all for it. If George was still here, they would have had Cliff Lee, Josh Hamilton, and Greinke.

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I'm sorry but the Yankees need to learn a lesson as well. Which is to not throw money around like they're playing Monopoly. For years they have outbid other teams for the services of the best players in the game and for obscene amounts of money. They've also been pretty fortunate that more contracts haven't bitten them in the butt. So this type of bad luck is long overdue IMO. Whatever the Yankees have to end up eating is fine by me!

I agree to a point. The new CBA has indeed blunted the Yankees throwing money around and several bad contracts like CC and Tex are biting them in the butt already. We've seen that this past year where they didn't go after anyone and if we see more of that in the future,fine by me. It's about time the Yanks (and Red Sox etc) spending was reined in.

But ped's is a different ballgame to me. Eating a contract won't send a message to other players about usage. Voiding them will,starting with the biggest cheat,A-Fraud himself.

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I think ideally you want whatever situation would hurt the Yankees AND Alex Rodriguez. I think the only way that happens is if the Yankees aren't allowed to get rid of A-Roid's contract. Think about it. The Yankees would be hurt financially and while Alex Rodriguez would still be getting paid he would have to deal with boos every time he steps up to the plate and he'd be the most hated man in New York. I think I'm rooting for the Yankees to be forced to pay Rodriguez. I would LOVE to see a Red Sox-esque meltdown by the Yankees in 2013. Get your popcorn ready, this should be fun to watch. lol

ARod will never get away with cheating again - the microscope will be so intensely focused. The Yankees will never get a chance to void his contract. And he will not sit out to collect insurance to benefit the Yankees and no insurance company will pay that self induced injury claim without litigation. Should be fun!

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While I would typically agree with you on this, for the past 2 years I have been saying that Hank is running this team differently the George did. George didnt care what the cost was, just pay it and win. Hank seems to be running things a bit more typical and havent made a single contract that has been a big name player the last 2 years that I can remember. I am not saying that I dont want them to go down in flames, but if some how Arod and the Yankees both suffered I would be all for it. If George was still here, they would have had Cliff Lee, Josh Hamilton, and Greinke.

Dwindling attendance and higher luxury taxes might be the reason for this as much as anything else but who knows.

I agree to a point. The new CBA has indeed blunted the Yankees throwing money around and several bad contracts like CC and Tex are biting them in the butt already. We've seen that this past year where they didn't go after anyone and if we see more of that in the future,fine by me. It's about time the Yanks (and Red Sox etc) spending was reined in.

But ped's is a different ballgame to me. Eating a contract won't send a message to other players about usage. Voiding them will,starting with the biggest cheat,A-Fraud himself.

I see what you're saying. In a perfect world I'd like both parties to suffer. and there's my schadenfreude of the day.

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I know nobody will believe me, but on the day that Raffy Palmeiro tested positive for steroids I told everybody on the MLB message board that they shouldn't point fingers because other major MLB stars probably use steroids too. I specifically named Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and David Ortiz. I was right. Whoever laughs last laughs the hardest.
Somehow I don't find any of it the least bit funny.
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