Throwing in the towel on the offseason

[El Gordo]

I'm guessing people would think the off season was a success if we had traded Bundy Schoop and Strop for Upton, or spent 5/25 M on Hamilton, because would have made a big splash. A belly flop IMO.

[wildcard]

Just can't agree with this. Manny Machado wasn't a top prospect for nothing and should improve this season. We are improved at 2B with numerous options including Roberts, Casilla and a more experienced Flaherty. Davis is no longer in rightfield which means a very large defensive upgrade with the return of Markakis. And, Markakis RF/Davis 1B is better offensively than Davis RF/Reynolds 1B (IMO, anyway). We also have better right handed bench/DH options with the return of Reimold and acquisitions including Valencia. McLouth should stabilize LF and if he doesn't, there are a number of other options and the Dickerson/Robinson roster spot winner should provide a pretty good 4th outfielder for the bench.

I don't think this team has made any huge upgrades, but I don't think it's taken a step back either. Two things that became very clear to me this off season was that Buck and Duquetter were in agreement that they did not want Reynolds on this team and that they were absolutely not willing to trade Bundy or Machado. I agree with them on both points.

I am not going to harsh your mellow too much. What DD and Buck have said is that they liked Reynolds as a player but didn't like his contract. I think they looked at their budget early on and knew they couldn't afford to keep him. They are at about 91M (+10M from last spring) without him and I have to think that is close to the top of their budget. I am not saying that couldn't go to Peter and make their case for the right addition but I don't think they thought they should do that for Reynolds.

As far as the team being as good as the team that ended last year I don't see it right now. Reynolds three year average projected him to be 30 HR and 80 RBI this year. They hurt the offensive depth by not bring him back or replacing him. They are an injury or two away from playing playing Valencia versus righthanders or Ishikawa at 1B. Saunders is the guy that allows them to trade some of the young pitching for and bat they have not brought him back yet.

I think the O's are somewhat thinner in offense and proven starting pitching depth then they were when the season ended. And I think DD and Buck had to do that to meet their budget.

[Guest rochester]

I am a bit perplexed about the adulation for MR now... after there were many (IIRC) that wanted to release him by the middle of last year, period. Has decent defense and a hot streak really make him that indispensable? I am in agreement that we should have kept him and would have liked him back on the team but it isn't like we let Nick walk. I am just not sure that losing Mark Reynolds makes this winter a failure - now, if we are talking MOO then we have some good discussion IMO.

[MurphDogg]

I am not going to harsh your mellow too much. What DD and Buck have said is that they liked Reynolds as a player but didn't like his contract. I think they looked at their budget early on and knew they couldn't afford to keep him.

Or they just thought he was to be paid more than he was worth, as that is the more literal definition of liking the player and not liking the contract. :scratchchinhmm:

[wildcard]

Agree strongly. Our OD 2013 squad should be markedly superior to the OD roster for a 93 win team in 2012. And it's hard to compare our current roster with our playoff roster last year, because (assuming we are in contention again down the stretch) DD will almost certainly improve the 2013 team mid-season just as he did last year with the Saunders / McLouth acquisitions and through callups from the farm (Bundy, Gausmann, Schoop, etc).

I'm actually very pleased with the way this off-season has gone. I think the O's front office made a logical assessment of the team and determined that they didn't need to reach on any FA acquisitions or trades to remain very competitive. The thing I'm most excited by, is the fact DD has avoided committing large amounts of money to mediocre, old free agents past their prime like most of the previous regimes have done. There is help coming from the farm and from the DL list and we have a surplus of pitching that will allow us to be active trade partners during the season. I expect the team to be better at the end of 2013 than it was at the beginning of the season, just like we were last year.

Then why did DD say for most of the off season that he wanted to add a MOO bat and a proven starter?

[Fla_O'sfan]

You know, people keep talking about a MOO bat - they forget about Sosnoskie. He's not going to cost us a first-round draft pick, and he brings it from the left side, which will be nice. By the end of the season, he'll be batting in the five-hole - book it.

You are joking, right???

[Number5]

First, we absolutely know that not everyone will stay healthy. You are kind of smearing the lens to say that the O's have added Markakis, Betemit, Reimold and Wada. They were with the team all year just injured for part of it. And there will be players injured for part of 2013. That is no way to compare the players on the 2012 and 2013 teams. Its more like.

Added:

Jurrjens

T Robinson

Casilla

McFarland

L Martinez

Navarro

Valencia

Lost

Saunder (for now)

Reynolds

Andino

Chavez

Thome

Injuries happen, but, no, I don't think that it is unreasonable to anticipate that we will not miss as many plate appearances by all three of Markakis, Reimold, and Betemit as last year. There seems to be every reason to believe that the missed Reynolds plate appearances will be filled by a combination that would mostly consist of Markakis, Reimold, and Betemit (not to mention Machado), and would likely have results that would be an improvement over Reynolds' results. I think that classifying the 147 games missed by Reimold, the 162 games missed by Wada, and even the 58 games missed by Markakis as being "Just part of the season" is a real stretch. Those were all substantial losses. Also, I find it a bit odd that you would list Thome and Saunders as "losses" when you don't list McLouth as a "gain". None started the season with the Orioles in 2012, and all 3 were free agents this winter. Likewise, it is hard for me to agree with your reluctance to include having Machado on the team from day 1 of the season to be a "gain" over last year. For these reasons, I think VeveJones' assessment has a much clearer lens than yours does. We enter 2013 better able to adapt to injuries than in the beginning of 2012, IMO.

[wildcard]

I think this is a great post, and pretty much sums up where I am. I would have loved to get a power hitter, but it just does not seem like realistic opportunties were there. I am about as big of a Reynolds fan as there is, but we can't forget about the five bad months that he had in addition to his one good one. I am going to miss him as a part of this team, but it should not hurt production that much.

I am sure we could have gotten something done, but it would have probably depleted what is an already thin farm system. There is nothing that was out there in FA that I was terribly excited about. I am a little disappointed, but taking everything in perspective, I think we have probably gone the right route this offseason. We all want instant gratification, but given our situation, I am OK with what has been done so far.

Please explain what 5 bad months that Reynolds had.

[El Gordo]

Then why did DD say for most of the off season that he wanted to add a MOO bat and a proven starter?

You undserstand the difference between saying that and saying we need to add those things at any cost? Of course he wanted to do that. But he didn't want to increase payroll 50M or trade Bundy, and or Machado. Can you propose a lesser deal that he should have made but didn't? If you're KC and you need to finish higher than 4th in the AL Central, and DD was offering you Tillman and Strop for Butler, and TB was offering Shields and Davis for Myers, which deal would you do?

[Bradysburns]

You are joking' date=' right???[/quote']

Yes - I should have put the emoticon in there. My bad!

[wildcard]

As already stated in this thread, DD and Co. said they wanted to add a MOO bat and a TOR starter. Neither of which were added so in that sense yes it was a failure.

Also, as pointed out already, DD has said he wants to increase the O's OBP and so far this offseason they haven't added a player who'll do that. Unless they're counting on the OBP raise to come from players already on the team.

Let's not go too overboard. I don't think DD ever said he would acquire a TOR starter. Bottom of the rotation inning eater is what I remember.

A full year of Markakis, more at bats for McLouth and Betemit for the left side and Valencia from that right side should help of the OBP.

[wildcard]

I'm pretty sure Frobby said we had more than the usual number of injuries last season. Here's what he said:"Over the last 7 years, the Orioles' splits have been 59/30/11. So, pretty close to average. Last year was particularly bad, 23/46/31." Also I'd like to compare this year's OD 25 man roster to last year's OD 25 man before I'd say they we're pretty much the same team.

Not sure what he splits mean.

[Stotle]

The bottom line is that the free agent class was very weak. We chose not to trade our top prospects to acquire available guys through trades. Outside a two week stretch, Reynolds was terrible. DD has come in and done what he said he would do, make the organization better from the bottom up. You don't do that by trading the top prospect in baseball or by losing draft picks because you signed overpriced, one dimensional free agents

Wait, Baltimore got Profar?!?!?! SWEET!!!!!!!!!!

[wildcard]

Last years OD 25 man roster:

Hammel

Chen

Matusz

Arrieta

Hunter

Pen:

Gregg

Strop

JJ

O'Day

Ayala

Lindstrom

Eveland

C Wieters

1B Davis

2B Andino

3B Reynolds

SS Hardy

LF Reimold

CF Jones

RF Markakis

DH Betemit

Bench:

Paulino

Flaherty

Chavez

Johnson

I'm guessing this year it's:

Hammel

Chen

Tillman

Gonzo

Saunders

Pen:

JJ

Strop

O'Day

Ayala

Patton

Matusz

Hunter/Johnson

CWieters

1B Davis

2B Roberts/Cassila

3B Machado

SS Hardy

LF Mclouth/Reimold

CF Jones

RF Markakis

DH Betemit/Reimold/Valencia

Bench

Teagarden

Cassilla

Valencia

Reimold/Betemit

I really think this year's version is better than last year's

Oh, I agree that this year OD roster is better than last years OD roster. But if you compare last years final roster with the this years OD roster, so far it comes up short mostly because of the loss of Saunders and Reynolds.

[wildcard]

The bottom line is that the free agent class was very weak. We chose not to trade our top prospects to acquire available guys through trades. Outside a two week stretch, Reynolds was terrible. DD has come in and done what he said he would do, make the organization better from the bottom up. You don't do that by trading the top prospect in baseball or by losing draft picks because you signed overpriced, one dimensional free agents

Reynolds splits for May, August and September look very good. Though he was injured for part of May. This, 'Outside of the two week stretch' stuff really bugs me. He had an off yearly partly because of injury but lets not make it worst then it was. One bad year does not make the other 4 decent ones disappear.