TT: The Orioles projected payroll is 4th in the AL East

[Stotle]

Does Wieters/Bundy/Machado count in that category?

I think we would have to fast forward to their extensions to know, right?

If you mean from a talent perspective, then no -- at least not right now.

[Dipper9]

I think we would have to fast forward to their extensions to know, right?

If you mean from a talent perspective, then no -- at least not right now.

Noticed you have 2 pitchers, so I'll say Manny/Bundy/Glausman would be as close to your threesome as the Orioles could get at the moment. And yes, I'm talking about what talent and extensions they could get down the road, not what they are worth now.

[Stotle]

Noticed you have 2 pitchers, so I'll say Manny/Bundy/Glausman would be as close to your threesome as the Orioles could get at the moment. And yes, I'm talking about what talent and extensions they could get down the road, not what they are worth now.

Sure, their prospect talent level would indicate a possible outcome whereby Machado could argue for 6/80 around the same time Bundy and Gausman could be arguing for 20 MM+.

[El Gordo]

We are going to have to be in a position to offer Wieters an extension that exceeds Jones IMO. Also Machado and Bundy and Gausman, not too long after that. I'd rather we spend the 25M per Hamilton got on those guys.

[MurphDogg]

Well, Rowand hurt them, I think Zito helped them.

Edit: Actually Rowand put up a .700+ OPS for two seasons while playing a premium position....so I dont think either player hurt them.

Rowand had a sub-1 WAR for each of the 4 seasons and missed the fifth season of a 5 year, 60 million dollar contract. That contract was inarguably a failure. Barry Zito signed a 7-year 126 million dollar contract and has thus far been worth 3.8 WAR over 6 years. They were terrible deals that handcuffed the team and they won despite them, not because of them.

[Frobby]

I don't put too much stock in where we are, relative to the other AL East teams, in payroll. In 2011, we outspent the Blue Jays by $15 mm -- how did that year go? In 2012, the O's and Jays spent the same amount of money -- the O's were down by $2 mm from 2011 and the Jays were up by $13 mm -- how did that year go? I do have some concerns about the (artificial?) constraints on our payroll, but our relative standing to the rest of the AL East isn't too important to me.

[El Gordo]

I don't put too much stock in where we are, relative to the other AL East teams, in payroll. In 2011, we outspent the Blue Jays by $15 mm -- how did that year go? In 2012, the O's and Jays spent the same amount of money -- the O's were down by $2 mm from 2011 and the Jays were up by $13 mm -- how did that year go? I do have some concerns about the (artificial?) constraints on our payroll, but our relative standing to the rest of the AL East isn't too important to me.

I think there was a 100M threashold deliniated with some flexibility built in. I think they were mostly cautious because of the arbitration numbers. Don't know whether 100 M is reasonable in terms of revenues or low.

[Tony-OH]

Part of my fun as a fan is watching MY team come together and have winning seasons. I know that some of these guys wouldn't make the 25 man roster on the really great teams, but damnit, when a season happens like last year, I feel like I am a part of it. I know you have more information than the rest of us, and I guess I fit the mold of a fan conditioned to "accept" the new Orioles way of doing business. I also know we can probably afford a Hamilton even if he falls off the wagon and does not earn his salary. But it still doesn't mean I have to want that for my team. The bottom line is winning, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise, but if I wanted the Orioles to sign all this premium talent and be a group of mercenaries, then damnit, I'd be rooting for the one thing I hate more than any other in all of sports...I'd be rooting for the Baltimore "Yankees." Well screw that man. I guess I'm just that damn stupid and naive and "conditioned" but that ain't why I am an Orioles fan, and I'll be damned if that's what I want the Orioles to become.

I understand all of that dip, but just to clarify, I don't think any of us expect the Orioles to become the Yankees or Angels and try and sign every premium free agent. I enjoy the underdog feeling as much as the next guy, but I would just like for once to see the Orioles sign a guy like Tiexiera or Fielder or Hamilton to augment that inner core of talent. That kind of commitment tells Joe fan that the Orioles are serious about winning, not just hoping they can pull off another underdog story. Hopefully Machado, Bundy and Guasman can turn into our premium talent.

[luismatos4prez]

What some of you fail to understand that this is still an organization that doesn't buy new pitching machines or real video equipment for their minor league clubs. Why? Because this organization doesn't like to spend money on anything other than what they have to spend. Maybe this will change with Duquette. Maybe he will be bale to spend many on facilities and equipment for their minor leaguers?

Is this a metaphor or are you speaking from experience? Like, did Angelos explicitly reject a minor league team's request for a functioning pitching machine or do you just think it's something he would do?

[Tony-OH]

I don't put too much stock in where we are, relative to the other AL East teams, in payroll. In 2011, we outspent the Blue Jays by $15 mm -- how did that year go? In 2012, the O's and Jays spent the same amount of money -- the O's were down by $2 mm from 2011 and the Jays were up by $13 mm -- how did that year go? I do have some concerns about the (artificial?) constraints on our payroll, but our relative standing to the rest of the AL East isn't too important to me.

I understand this line of thinking and you can certainly find examples where a team with a lower payroll out performs one with a higher payroll all the time. But look around at the highest payrolls and see how often they are in the playoffs compared to those with the lower payrolls. It does not mean the Orioles are doomed to finish 4th because foe their payroll, but it does illustrate the constraints in which the Orioles operate in in comparison to their AL East brethren.

[Tony-OH]

Is this a metaphor or are you speaking from experience? Like, did Angelos explicitly reject a minor league team's request for a functioning pitching machine or do you just think it's something he would do?

I know for a fact this team has had antiquated equipment at their minor league facilities in comparison to other organizations for years. Requests have been made and denied over the years for things such as curve ball machines. Perhaps that will be or has been addressed with some of the new blood coming in and with Duquette's emphasis on minor league development.

[Ohfan67]

I know for a fact this team has had antiquated equipment at their minor league facilities in comparison to other organizations for years. Requests have been made and denied over the years for things such as curve ball machines. Perhaps that will be or has been addressed with some of the new blood coming in and with Duquette's emphasis on minor league development.

That's mind blowing. I sure hope times have changed. Good grief.

[Number5]

I know for a fact this team has had antiquated equipment at their minor league facilities in comparison to other organizations for years. Requests have been made and denied over the years for things such as curve ball machines. Perhaps that will be or has been addressed with some of the new blood coming in and with Duquette's emphasis on minor league development.

http://www.hark.com/clips/wbcnhjxjgs-what-happened-to-the-new-whirlpool-we-were-supposed-to-get

[DrungoHazewood]

Part of my fun as a fan is watching MY team come together and have winning seasons. I know that some of these guys wouldn't make the 25 man roster on the really great teams, but damnit, when a season happens like last year, I feel like I am a part of it. I know you have more information than the rest of us, and I guess I fit the mold of a fan conditioned to "accept" the new Orioles way of doing business. I also know we can probably afford a Hamilton even if he falls off the wagon and does not earn his salary. But it still doesn't mean I have to want that for my team. The bottom line is winning, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise, but if I wanted the Orioles to sign all this premium talent and be a group of mercenaries, then damnit, I'd be rooting for the one thing I hate more than any other in all of sports...I'd be rooting for the Baltimore "Yankees." Well screw that man. I guess I'm just that damn stupid and naive and "conditioned" but that ain't why I am an Orioles fan, and I'll be damned if that's what I want the Orioles to become.

I don't think many people want the O's to use free agency as their primary source of talent. Or even secondary. My preference is for them to build up a decent core, kind of like last year, and then use the increased attendance and playoff revenues to make further investments to push them over the top and/or continue the success. I would have zero regret or issues rooting for a team that was 23 guys from the 2012 Orioles and two solid $15-20M/year free agents.

[bobmc]

I don't think many people want the O's to use free agency as their primary source of talent. Or even secondary. My preference is for them to build up a decent core, kind of like last year, and then use the increased attendance and playoff revenues to make further investments to push them over the top and/or continue the success. I would have zero regret or issues rooting for a team that was 23 guys from the 2012 Orioles and two solid $15-20M/year free agents.

:agree:

What he said - Dipper be damned!