Maryland(18-7) @ Boston College(11-14)

[Tony-OH]

Like I said last night, right now the team isn't mentally strong. If Len enters the draft, he'll go high, because of his potential. Worse players than him have been paid millions.

And the idea that Gary's teams always showed up is revisionist history. There was the ACC Tournament game against Clemson at Verizon Center. There was the 18 point lead against Clemson that they blew at home. Hell, the last year of Gilchrist and the year after that were disasters, both in terms of highly touted recruits who bombed out, and the total lack of effort many of them displayed. Turgeon has been around or less than two years, and he's got one recruiting class in here. Next year's is even more highly touted than this one. What we've seen so far is good, but young and inconsistent play from them. Drawing any conclusions about what he can do as a coach and where this program can go is laughably premature. I understand the win now mentality, but we should all know what we're getting with this team. It's a squad that can steal a game or two at their best, and totally give away games when they shouldn't. We've seen that the whole conference schedule. But all indications suggest better days are ahead. If they weren't good they wouldn't be stealing games against Dook. But the good times just aren't coming this season. This ain't a video game.

Sweet, I actually got you to bash to Williams.

No one here though doesn't think brighter days are not ahead. Of course they are. Some of us probably got a bit ahead of ourselves because of the way the team looked at times against the cream puffs, but the only concern I have is how this team seems to respond to opportunity. I know they are young, but guys like Len and Wells have come up small too many times this season when the team really needed one of them to step up. Now I know Turgeon is hand strung with guys like Faust, Padgett, and Pe'shon, and I know he has no point guard, but at the end of the day, that lack of effort against BC was mind-boggling. Obviously even he was at a loss for words immediately after.

Now I'm not down on Turgeon at all really. Yeah, some of my previous post was frustration after a horrible effort, but he's already got Maryland back on the map for big time recruits and as soon as he doesn't have to run out the likes of Faust, Pe'shon and Padgett for extended minutes the better this team will be.

Also, out of his recruits, only Cleare looks like he has the potential to be a bust. Allen, Layman and Mitchell all look like they have potential to be great Terps.

[Tony-OH]

Jordan Williams was never an NBA prospect. Alex Len has all the tools to be a legit big man in the NBA. After dominating Plumlee and Noel, he's as good as gone. Why would he want to come back anyways for a team that didn't even make the tourney?

Crossing my fingers that he's a Wizard next year

I don't agree with that at all. Jordan Williams and Chris Wilcox are the poster children for leaving too early and ruining chances of having a nice NBA career. Len will be the same way if he leaves because he will not be good enough to play right away and won't play enough to get better. Len is nowhere near physically ready to play in the NBA. An occasional good game can not wash away his inability to move guys inside or get off shots against anyone of equal or semi-equal height on a regular basis. He does have the tools, but they are way too rule and I although I won't rule out the stupidity of the NBA in making him a lottery pick, he's a project still and I'm not sure the NBA has shown they can develop projects well.

[AgentOrange]

Jordan Williams was an undersized center at the NBA level, who never demonstrated the face up game in college that would be required in the pros.

Alex Len is 7-1 and athletic, showing flashes of potential and tools that every NBA scout goes nuts over. Remember, all these teams think so highly of themselves. They can always harness that potential. There's no question Len would benefit by staying at Maryland and continuing his development. It'll make him a better pro. But it also delays an enormous paycheck that all of us would take in a second. He's a lock for a top 10 pick just because of his size and ability, regardless of his performance. Show you can do it sometimes, and someone will think they can help you do it all the time. And they'll put a lot of 0's at the end of your paycheck as proof. I'm at least 90% certain he's gone for those reasons.

I agree with this. Add in the fact that this draft is on the weaker side, there is no way he would be outside the top 10. That is hard to pass up.

[Tony-OH]

Coach sure does a good job of throwing his team under the bus.

Boom Osby developed more in one year than Len and there has been regression with everyone on the team with the possible slight exception of Leyman.

First off, Turgeon is just being honest. I much rather hear a coach tell it like it is then give us coach speak. Turgeon doesn't throw his players under the bus, he just points out when they don't give the effort they should, and he's right. As for the so-called regression, I'd say that has more to do with the increase in competition then bad coaching. I loved Osby because he was a lunch pail guy, but he was pretty much from the get go after coming over as a JUCO transfer. He just got more minutes as he proved to be one of the team's best rebounders.

[AgentOrange]

I don't agree with that at all. Jordan Williams and Chris Wilcox are the poster children for leaving too early and ruining chances of having a nice NBA career. Len will be the same way if he leaves because he will not be good enough to play right away and won't play enough to get better. Len is nowhere near physically ready to play in the NBA. An occasional good game can not wash away his inability to move guys inside or get off shots against anyone of equal or semi-equal height on a regular basis. He does have the tools, but they are way too rule and I although I won't rule out the stupidity of the NBA in making him a lottery pick, he's a project still and I'm not sure the NBA has shown they can develop projects well.

The best argument you can make for him to stay is that he might be a one payout guy if he leaves early. There is no doubt he will cash in on his first contract. The prospect of him going even higher next year is stronger if he stays. Also, he would have more staying power in the NBA because his game would be much more refined. This would allow him to be a better pro and cash in on his second and third contracts.

If he flops in the NBA because he is not ready, he will only see one of those pay days.

That would be the angle I would take if I was Turgeon.

[Tony-OH]

The best argument you can make for him to stay is that he might be a one payout guy if he leaves early. There is no doubt he will cash in on his first contract. The prospect of him going even higher next year is stronger if he stays. Also, he would have more staying power in the NBA because his game would be much more refined. This would allow him to be a better pro and cash in on his second and third contracts.

If he flops in the NBA because he is not ready, he will only see one of those pay days.

That would be the angle I would take if I was Turgeon.

Totally agree. I don't doubt for a second that the NBA in its infinite stupidity will try to dump a bunch of money on Len's doorstep, and I totally would understand if Len takes the money. But Turgeon needs to use Wilcox and Williams as perfect examples of toolsy young college guys who didn't develop in the NBA. Who knows? Maybe Len will want to be part of Maryland when they are a tourney team next year instead of being known as the big Ukrainian center on some non-tourney Maryland teams. I don't know what makes Len tick but hopefully he'll choose to stick around for one more year.

[Danielos38]

Also, out of his recruits, only Cleare looks like he has the potential to be a bust. Allen, Layman and Mitchell all look like they have potential to be great Terps.

I don't get where you're coming from on Cleare. He's a freshman big who we knew was raw coming in here. He has a ton of talent and he's shown flashes of that. I don't get the sense that he's a bust in the slightest.

[Tony-OH]

I don't get where you're coming from on Cleare. He's a freshman big who we knew was raw coming in here. He has a ton of talent and he's shown flashes of that. I don't get the sense that he's a bust in the slightest.

Then I'm sorry, but you either haven't been paying much attention to him or you have very low expectations of such high level recruit. He's got no real offensive moves outside of a slam and put back, his hands aren't soft, he's shown no inclination to have a nose for rebounding, and he's slow getting up and down the court. He came in as the big recruit yet Mitchell (Who was a nice recruit but not as highly touted) has already shown to be a much better player.

                         |---TOTAL---| |---3-PTS---|               |----REBOUNDS----|## Player              GP-GS  Min--Avg  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg  PF FO   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------00 Charles Mitchell... 26-5   406 15.6  66-124  .532   0-0    .000  19-37   .514   52  99  151  5.8  43  0   9  39  13   5  151  5.844 Shaquille Cleare... 26-6   344 13.2  44-73   .603   0-0    .000  21-34   .618   28  52   80  3.1  48  0   2  17   6   2  109  4.2

Cleare was a Four-star prospect who graded at 96 by ESPN.com. He was rated the 30th best player in his class and the 8th best center by ESPN. He was also rated a four-star and the 53rd best player in his class by Rivals.com.

I expect a guy like that who's only competition was a lower rated fellow Freshman and a disappointing senior in Padgett, to earn a lot more minutes than he has. Clear has played 62 minutes less than Mitchell, but has 71 less rebounds (24 less ORB), seven less blocks, scored 42 less points, but has committed 5 more fouls than Mitchell.

In ACC play, Cleare has managed to average 2.8 points and 2.8 rebounds but 2.1 fouls per game.

I'm not saying he can't get better, but he's clearly been a disappointment this year and I for one do not see the same upside in him as I do for Allen, Layman, and Mitchell at Maryland.

It's too early to call him a bust, but out of the Freshman, he looks like the weakest of the four and he certainly has bust potential.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

I don't agree with that at all. Jordan Williams and Chris Wilcox are the poster children for leaving too early and ruining chances of having a nice NBA career.

Wilcox and Williams weren't the same type of prospects. Wilcox was athletic and had more of an NBA game then Williams. Williams was built more for college with the wide frame and strong hands. Wilcox went 8th in the draft while Williams went 36th (2nd round). I think Wilcox is the better comparision for Len from a talent standpoint. He could have benefited from more time in college. At the same time he's had an okay NBA career (disappointing to be sure) and has made a lot of money ($37.5MM). Williams has just flopped and that's not really surprising.

[Tony-OH]

Wilcox and Williams weren't the same type of prospects. Wilcox was athletic and had more of an NBA game then Williams. Williams was built more for college with the wide frame and strong hands. Wilcox went 8th in the draft while Williams went 36th (2nd round). I think Wilcox is the better comparision for Len from a talent standpoint. He could have benefited from more time in college. At the same time he's had an okay NBA career (disappointing to be sure) and has made a lot of money ($37.5MM). Williams has just flopped and that's not really surprising.

I still think had Williams stuck around he would have been better, but who knows? Him leaving though brought us Turgeon so he may be the most important player ever to leave the program early.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

I still think had Williams stuck around he would have been better, but who knows? Him leaving though brought us Turgeon so he may be the most important player ever to leave the program early.

For most players it helps to stick around another year or two. I agree it would have helped Williams. I imagine he'd have been in the All-American discussion and possibly could have played himself into a lottery selection. Guess we'll never know though. And I like the positive spin on Williams leaving early. At the time I was sad to see Gary go because I liked watching him coach and I like the way his teams played. Now I'm excited because the Terps are recruiting at a much higher level.