Showalter Likes What He Sees in T.J. McFarland

[Crazysilver03]

Not sure what teams passed on McFarland in the Rule 5, but hard to believe the Astros or someone else wouldn't claim him.

Astros got two better players when they drafted.

But at same time why wouldnt they claim Redmond.

[Can_of_corn]

Strop came over in the Mike Gonzalez trade. And a pitcher with the K-caliber of David Hernandez would never be a waiver claim.

Your missing what I'm getting at. All I'm saying is that we had David Hernandez under control long term and he's turned into a very dominant reliever. We have seen what Tommy Hunter can bring to the table in the bullpen. I would like to see a full year of it instead of moving him like we did with Hernandez.

I never did like giving him up for Reynolds.

Strop was claimed off of waivers.

I know exactly what you are saying and I disagree with it. Bullpen arms are just not that valuable. They have a high attrition rate and their performances tend to fluctuate wildly from one season to the next.

Hunter is also over three years of service time so Hernandez isn't really the best comp for him since Hernandez had only acquired 1+ years of service time when the O's traded him.

[wildcard]

It's a little confusing but I think Roch is right. The Orioles can work out a trade for McFarland BUT not before he goes through waivers again, so every team has a chance to claim him under the original Rule 5 rules (must keep him on 25 man roster all year). If McFarland were to pass through waivers the O's could work out a trade but if he gets claimed it's their tough luck. Here's a case which is the exact example of what we are talking about. Read carefully though. The Twins were able to work out a trade for Scott Diamond after he passed through waivers.

http://aarongleeman.com/2011/03/29/twins-trade-billy-bullock-to-keep-rule-5-pick-scott-diamond/

I am not sure that the Diamond being put on waivers is related to the trade. It appears that the Twins outrighted him to Rochester. That is done when a team wants to get a player off the 40 man roster. So apparently there are two transactions here. One to trade for Diamond and a waiver to get him off the 40 man roster.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/players/bio/?id=8647

In the O's case with McFarland I think they would keep him on the 40 man roster if they chose to trade for him. Therefore no waiver is required.

[SrMeowMeow]

He was in fact a waiver claim.

[wildcard]

You can't work out a trade with the original team until he passes through waivers.

Not sure what you aren't getting. The Twins claimed Diamond in the Rule 5. They wanted him in their system but didn't want to keep him on the 25 man roster. He had to go through waivers before they could work out a trade. Why do you think he would have went through waivers first and then the Twins worked out the trade? The answer is because that's the way the Rule 5 works.

If I take the two articles and construct a time line of what happen to Diamond here is what I get.

12/09/10 - Diamond selected in the Rule 5 draft by the Twins

12/09/10 - Twins trade Bullock for Diamond

3/28/11 - Diamond outrighted to Rochester (probably to get him off the 40 man roster)

3/29/11 - Article written that say Diamond was put through waivers in the last week.

That makes me feel that the waivers are related to the outrighting instead of the trade.

[Frobby]

Strop came over in the Mike Gonzalez trade. And a pitcher with the K-caliber of David Hernandez would never be a waiver claim.

Strop was claimed off of waivers.

He was in fact a waiver claim.

You're all correct. Strop was on revocable waivers, as was Gonzalez, after the July 31 trade deadline. The O's and Rangers agreed to a swap, whereby the O's claimed Strop, and the Rangers claimed Gonzalez. To accomplish this, other teams had to pass on a waiver claim for both players. But, that's how all post-July waiver deals are done. It doesn't reflect on a player's value the same way that being placed on irrevocable waivers does.

As to the Hernandez for Reynolds trade, it worked out better for Arizona than it did for us, but at the time of the trade, the logic for the Orioles making the move was sound.

[clapdiddy]

You're all correct. Strop was on revocable waivers, as was Gonzalez, after the July 31 trade deadline. The O's and Rangers agreed to a swap, whereby the O's claimed Strop, and the Rangers claimed Gonzalez. To accomplish this, other teams had to pass on a waiver claim for both players. But, that's how all post-July waiver deals are done. It doesn't reflect on a player's value the same way that being placed on irrevocable waivers does.

As to the Hernandez for Reynolds trade, it worked out better for Arizona than it did for us, but at the time of the trade, the logic for the Orioles making the move was sound.

If I'm not mistaken, we had the worst record in the AL, so we were the first eligible team to claim Strop. I don't think he would have went unclaimed if we had the second-worst record at that time.

[Crazysilver03]

If I'm not mistaken, we had the worst record in the AL, so we were the first eligible team to claim Strop. I don't think he would have went unclaimed if we had the second-worst record at that time.

This. Gonzalez made it through the process unclaimed by all teams and was free to be traded. We were the worst in the AL so had first claiming rights on any player.

[DrungoHazewood]

And a pitcher with the K-caliber of David Hernandez would never be a waiver claim.

Yea, you'd never see a case where a guy like Jason Grilli, who'd been a Rule 5er, released twice, traded for non-descript minor leaguers... suddenly has a season where he punches out 13.8 per nine.

David Hernandez is a fine reliever. But there are a lot of fine relievers. He was 7th in the majors in K/9 last year. In today's game everybody strikes out a batter an inning.

[stomperspc]

Article is dated March 29, 2011 and says:

Yesterday's trade with the Braves to retain Rule 5 pick Scott Diamond

Then it references the fact that he clear waivers last week.

Was just coming to say the same thing. The trade happened in March, not December. Waivers come before the trade.

If they didn't, a team could theoretically draft a player in the Rule V to block a rival (who drafts later) from selecting him and then just send him back to the original team (or retain him via a trade) without that rival team ever getting a fair shot taking the player as a Rule 5. By forcing the player to be put through waivers, that other team gets a second opportunity to add the player to their roster under Rule 5 guidelines.

[wildcard]

I found this:

StarTribune

March 28, 2011

Diamond was selected by the Twins in the Rule 5 draft and had to remain with the major league club or be offered back to Atlanta for half the $50,000 fee. If a team wants to keep a Rule 5 pick and send him to the minors, that player must clear waivers and then the team has to work a trade with the club that previously had him.

RZ, you and Roch are right.

[Frobby]

If I'm not mistaken, we had the worst record in the AL, so we were the first eligible team to claim Strop. I don't think he would have went unclaimed if we had the second-worst record at that time.

This. Gonzalez made it through the process unclaimed by all teams and was free to be traded. We were the worst in the AL so had first claiming rights on any player.

It was still, for all practical purposes, a trade.

Pedro Strop, a hard-throwing right-hander who has appeared in 25 games for the Texas Rangers in the past three seasons, is the player to be named later in Wednesday’s deal that sent Michael Gonzalez to the Texas Rangers, according to an industry source.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/08/pedro_strop_is_player_to_be_na.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

It works like this:

- Rangers claim Gonzalez, but Orioles can revoke waivers.

- Orioles talk to Rangers and agree not to revoke waivers if the Rangers put Strop on waivers.

- Strop is put on waivers and the Orioles claim him.

[SrMeowMeow]

It was still, for all practical purposes, a trade.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/08/pedro_strop_is_player_to_be_na.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

It works like this:

- Rangers claim Gonzalez, but Orioles can revoke waivers.

- Orioles talk to Rangers and agree not to revoke waivers if the Rangers put Strop on waivers.

- Strop is put on waivers and the Orioles claim him.

Yeah, but I think this whole debate is clearly just about the technicality at this point, so...

[Can_of_corn]

Yeah, but I think this whole debate is clearly just about the technicality at this point, so...

I am shocked it got to this point. I just needed him to be a waiver claim to reinforce a claim I was making. I knew the specifics but since they were irrelevant to my argument I didn't bother to include them.

[SrMeowMeow]

I am shocked it got to this point. I just needed him to be a waiver claim to reinforce a claim I was making. I knew the specifics but since they were irrelevant to my argument I didn't bother to include them.

I'd claim your waiver. In a heartbeat.