Notes from the Post!

[rolliefingers]

Thank You! THIS NEEDED TO BE SAID. We are so concerned about keeping our payroll down, in hopes this money will be used for a better purpose at some later date. What did we spend the Vlad money on? The rest of the league doesn't care how much money the O's "save", they just keep paying for the talent.

Now I'm not opposed to blowing it up and starting over, but at some point, if you think you are in a position to contend, then you MUST SPEND THE MONEY.

If your argument is that we are not close to contending, fine. Don't sign Soriano, trade Miggy and build for the future.

If You think we can win in the next two years with Miggy, then SPEND THE MONEY AND GET THE TALENT!

I agree with this to an extent, but to say that Soriano is better than Ramirez is just wrong.

If you're going to spend that kind of money, spend it on Ramirez.

[osfan83]

I agree with this to an extent, but to say that Soriano is better than Ramirez is just wrong.

If you're going to spend that kind of money, spend it on Ramirez.

Thats fine. We can debate who the money is better spent on, and I have no problem with ARam. What drives me crazy is people who don't want to spend the money just because the price tag is too high. Tough, that's the way it is in MLB today. If you want to compete you have to pay for the talent.

[geschinger]

Not really, since he batted mostly leadoff. Is 10 rbi less from the lead-off spot (on a bad offensive team) in a big stadium, significant ?

It was closer to 25 runs, and even taking into account the differences in number of times they came up w/runners on base ARam had a better ratio of driving runners in than Soriano did.

However, I do agree with your point in general. Batting leadoff is a big factor. The same reason is why I don't worry about ARam's scoring fewer runs than Soriano. A leadoff man should score more runs than someone hitting further down in the lineup. It's why I didn't find your comparing their runs scored a compelling argument.

You act like you are personally paying Soriano. Doesn't it bother you that so much Oriole money goes unspent as the years pass by, while we miss on endless opportunities to make this team a contender? Soriano is the best player available. I wish we got the best players available. Crazy, right ?

If the choice is to commit $90 or $100m to Soriano or commit $90 or $100m to club profits, i.e. not used for other players than sure, give me Soriano. ARam is better than Soriano so he should be the guy you want us to get.

So-called "experts" predicted that Soriano was gonna have an off year because of RFk, too. SO be it. He's the masher that the Orioles desperately need and would help the offense tremendously. He would instantly make the line-up significantly better. That's what I worry about. I'm really not interested if Petey has to (finally) dish out more loot than he "should". Thats what he gets for not poneying up on the players in years past

ARam would be the masher the O's desparately need and he would help the offense termendously. He would instantly make the line-up better. He is a much better investment.

Yeah, I'm quite sure GIllick and Soriano will turn Philly around. In the meantime, we get to congratulate ourselves on not "overpaying" as we stagger towards another season of futility. Yipee!

Let's hope if he does land in Philly that he's a more succesful signing for them than some of their big signings in the past so they don't have to have to rely on being bailed out by the Yankees with another Abreu like salary dump.

[geschinger]

Now I'm not opposed to blowing it up and starting over, but at some point, if you think you are in a position to contend, then you MUST SPEND THE MONEY.

If your argument is that we are not close to contending, fine. Don't sign Soriano, trade Miggy and build for the future.

If You think we can win in the next two years with Miggy, then SPEND THE MONEY AND GET THE TALENT!

Absolutely but you have to add one word... If you think you are in a position to content, then you MUST SPEND THE MONEY WISELY.

Spending huge amounts of money is completely meaningless if you vastly overpay and you don't spend the money. See the $100m payroll last place Rangers teams featuring ARod at SS as the case study that you cannot forget WISELY.

[Boca Bird]

I agree with this to an extent, but to say that Soriano is better than Ramirez is just wrong.

If you're going to spend that kind of money, spend it on Ramirez.

The only thing that ARam does better than Soriano is have a higher OBP, but who cares, since Soriano scores more runs, anyway? What's the point of getting on base if you don't score ? Higher LOB's in the box scores? Score the most runs,win the game! Moreover, that it doesn't even get into the fact that Soriano can steal some bases for you and the unquantifiable stat of going 1st to 3rd on singles (integral to big innings).

Soriano is better, but I wouldn't mind ARam.

[Boca Bird]

It was closer to 25 runs, and even taking into account the differences in number of times they came up w/runners on base ARam had a better ratio of driving runners in than Soriano did.

I was going by the 3 year average.

However, I do agree with your point in general. Batting leadoff is a big factor. The same reason is why I don't worry about ARam's scoring fewer runs than Soriano. A leadoff man should score more runs than someone hitting further down in the lineup. It's why I didn't find your comparing their runs scored a compelling argument.

I see where you're going, but I think speed is also a factor on why Soriano scores more runs as well

If the choice is to commit $90 or $100m to Soriano or commit $90 or $100m to club profits, i.e. not used for other players than sure, give me Soriano. ARam is better than Soriano so he should be the guy you want us to get.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, but I wouldn't mind ARam, either

ARam would be the masher the O's desparately need and he would help the offense termendously. He would instantly make the line-up better. He is a much better investment.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, but I wouldn't mind ARam, either

Let's hope if he does land in Philly that he's a more succesful signing for them than some of their big signings in the past so they don't have to have to rely on being bailed out by the Yankees with another Abreu like salary dump.

I don't see that happening and apparently neither does my dog, Pat.

[geschinger]

I don't see that happening and apparently neither does my dog, Pat.

I don't blame you or Pat. When someone really wants something, sometimes they are willing to overlook the risks, no matter how large, and do whatever it takes and hope for the best. Sometimes it works out, many times it doesn't. I'm sure Philly didn't see salary dumps on the horizon when they've given out a big contract in the past either.

[Boca Bird]

Absolutely but you have to add one word... If you think you are in a position to content, then you MUST SPEND THE MONEY WISELY.

Spending huge amounts of money is completely meaningless if you vastly overpay and you don't spend the money. See the $100m payroll last place Rangers teams featuring ARod at SS as the case study that you cannot forget WISELY.

See the 2006 Tigers with the "unwise" signings of Pudge for 4 years and Ordonez for 5 years as to why its ok to take a chance, too :002_ssmile:

You can back and forth on this stuff all day. However, the frustration of the fanbase is palpable. This team is dangerously close to losing its fanbase to the point of irretrievability.

This team is long overdue to take some damn chances. Being too conservative cost us Vlad and Derek Lee, too (among others).

Enough is enough.

Take some chances, spend the money. If it doesn't work, have a firesale on 7.31.08 ala the Marlins. Who knows, signing some top-notch FA's might actually help bring us back more prospects if it doesn't bring us a title.

The same old song and dance just won't cut it anymore

[osfan83]

Absolutely but you have to add one word... If you think you are in a position to content, then you MUST SPEND THE MONEY WISELY.

Spending huge amounts of money is completely meaningless if you vastly overpay and you don't spend the money. See the $100m payroll last place Rangers teams featuring ARod at SS as the case study that you cannot forget WISELY.

Yes, I don't want to spend $100M on a last place team, but all of this is somewhat of a crapshoot. Past performance does not guarantee future returns. We could get ARam and he could be a bust. At some point you have to grow a pair and take a shot. Yes, do your best to spend wisely, but understand there is not a guarantee.

[geschinger]

Yes, I don't want to spend $100M on a last place team, but all of this is somewhat of a crapshoot. Past performance does not guarantee future returns. We could get ARam and he could be a bust. At some point you have to grow a pair and take a shot. Yes, do your best to spend wisely, but understand there is not a guarantee.

I agree with what you are saying, but given the choice I'd rather commit big money to a player who has been consistent over the past three years with .900+ OPS seasons rather than give huge money to the player who just had the career year to inflate his price.

It's the same reason I had no interest whatsoever when Adrian Beltre was a free agent. When a player has a career year they usually revert back making that player a much bigger risk than say someone like ARam who has been extremly consistent in recent years.

It doesn't mean ARam won't be a bust and ASori won't earn his money. It's just more of a gamble. ARam is like hitting on an 11 in blackjack and Soriano is more like having a 16. You still might win the hand w/Soriano, but I'm putting my money on the ARam hand. Texas put together a $100m last place team by making reckless gambles, ones that I would like to see the O's avoid.

[geschinger]

You can back and forth on this stuff all day. However, the frustration of the fanbase is palpable. This team is dangerously close to losing its fanbase to the point of irretrievability.

The franchise has been guilty of making moves and not making moves in the past to try to appease the fanbase. That needs to stop.

Like I said in another thread, in the short term, Screw the fans... If you build a winner, they will come. What appeases the fans and what is in the best interest of building a winner are not always the same thing.

[Boca Bird]

The franchise has been guilty of making moves and not making moves in the past to try to appease the fanbase. That needs to stop.

Like I said in another thread, in the short term, Screw the fans... If you build a winner, they will come. What appeases the fans and what is in the best interest of building a winner are not always the same thing.

Yeah, but I happen to think signing Soriano wouldn't only appease the fans, it would make us a better team. Its not like signing SammySosa or Jeff Conine, for instance.

[inmiggywetrust]

Not really, since he batted mostly leadoff. Is 10 rbi less from the lead-off spot (on a bad offensive team) in a big stadium, significant ?

You act like you are personally paying Soriano. Doesn't it bother you that so much Oriole money goes unspent as the years pass by, while we miss on endless opportunities to make this team a contender? Soriano is the best player available. I wish we got the best players available. Crazy, right ?

So-called "experts" predicted that Soriano was gonna have an off year because of RFk, too. SO be it. He's the masher that the Orioles desperately need and would help the offense tremendously. He would instantly make the line-up significantly better. That's what I worry about. I'm really not interested if Petey has to (finally) dish out more loot than he "should". Thats what he gets for not poneying up on the players in years past

Yeah, I'm quite sure GIllick and Soriano will turn Philly around. In the meantime, we get to congratulate ourselves on not "overpaying" as we stagger towards another season of futility. Yipee!

I agree completely except I prefer ARam. No one cares that PA saved his money. No one says, "phew!", thanks Petey for NOT spending your hard earned money to make this team better. We are sick of it. We do not care if the O's give a last second offer and it gets rejected. be serious from the start, make a good offer, stay in the bidding, and come out on top. No one, NO ONE, feels sorry for PA spending a few extra dollars.

[JTrea81]

Well you can look at it this way, by signing Soriano you improve one aspect of the team and fill one hole. By signing Ramirez you would improve two aspects of the team theoretically, filling two holes. Mora should hopefully rebound somewhat offensively and should be better in LF than at 3B defensively (he can't do worse that that pathetic bunch that was in LF last year) and Ramirez would add more offense and better defense to the 3B position. It's a moot point however because Ramirez will either be a Cub or a Yankee.

[NoVaO]

The only thing that ARam does better than Soriano is have a higher OBP, but who cares, since Soriano scores more runs, anyway? What's the point of getting on base if you don't score ? Higher LOB's in the box scores? Score the most runs,win the game! Moreover, that it doesn't even get into the fact that Soriano can steal some bases for you and the unquantifiable stat of going 1st to 3rd on singles (integral to big innings).

Soriano is better, but I wouldn't mind ARam.

Umm...getting on base is pretty important. The runs Soriano scores is mostly dependent on the batters behind him driving him in.

And Soriano was pretty poor in stolen base % last year. Soriano could repeat his 2006 season, but he carries much more risk than Ramirez due to track record and age. I expect Soriano to carry around an .880 OPS next year, maybe slightly lower. I expect Ramirez to be over .900.