Phil Niekro teaching knuckleball in minor league camp?

[malkusm]

In the ESPN game recap of today's game:

"Hall of Fame pitcher Phil Niekro is working at the Orioles minor league camp to teach pitchers knuckleballs, Showalter confirmed."

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=330314101

[malkusm]

I possibly should have posted this in the Minors forum...mods can move it, sorry

[weams]

Zach Wilt writes

...

Zach Staniewicz is a 26-year-old self described “baseball junkie” who is pursuing his lifelong dream of pitching in the big leagues. Staniewicz has pitched in pro baseball at the Independent League level, but worked with 300 game winner — and fellow knuckleballer — Phil Niekro in 2011 to refine his craft and make his chances of pitching in the bigs even better.

“He had a lot of good things to say,” Staniewicz told Derik Vanderford of the Union Daily Times in January. “He told me to keep working on the knuckle ball, so I committed myself to the pitch. He told me to eat, sleep and breathe the knuckle ball. He said it can’t be a secondary pitch; it’s gotta be all you throw. I took that advice.”

...

He played for the Military All-Stars for two weeks and his coach, Terry Allvord, called his pal Dan Duquette to setup a tryout for Staniewicz.

Staniewicz of course agreed and went to Camden Yards with the intention of throwing in the bullpen for Duquette before an Orioles game.

After eating lunch inside the stadium, Staniewicz went to the bus and asked his coach if he should get his gloves and cleats, but his coach said, “No, he’s already agreed to sign you.”

“Someone asked me, ‘What just happened?’” Staniewicz said. “I was like, ‘I’m not sure, but I think I just got signed by the Orioles!’”

Staniewicz then met with Duquette, who realized he had already worked with Niekro. Duquette gave him a verbal agreement during the summer and said he wanted to hire Niekro to work with him during spring training.

Staniewicz signed a minor league deal with the Orioles and the Birds hired Niekro to come to Sarasota and continue to work with the knuckleballer.

I haven’t been able to find much on how his spring has gone with the O’s, but Matt Eddy of Baseball America brings up a great point about Staniewicz’s fit with the Orioles.

In any other organization, Staniewicz would seem to be the longest of long shots, but Baltimore did resuscitate the careers of Miguel Gonzalez and Lew Ford last year.

...

http://baltimoresportsreport.com/orioles-knuckleball-pitcher-zach-staniewicz-38784.html

[isestrex]

[Camden_yardbird]

Leave no stone unturned.

[Gurgi]

We should try teaching this pitch to every 25 year old kid with a good arm that fails as a position player. Start our own academy for it. You get one kid every three or four years that gets to the show and it would pay for itself.

[luismatos4prez]

We should try teaching this pitch to every 25 year old kid with a good arm that fails as a position player. Start our own academy for it. You get one kid every three or four years that gets to the show and it would pay for itself.

To every crappy pitcher who flunks out of rookie ball:

"You're not good enough. You can try your luck in indy ball/minor league free agency or you can learn a knuckleball."

[square634]

To every crappy pitcher who flunks out of rookie ball:

"You're not good enough. You can try your luck in indy ball/minor league free agency or you can learn a knuckleball."

My guess would be that there is a prerequisite of at least fringe major league talent as a regular pitcher to be successful at the major league level with a knuckleball. There is also probably a saturation effect whereby knuckleballers are more effective because they are so rare (and so it's hard to practice against).

[isestrex]

We should try teaching this pitch to every 25 year old kid with a good arm that fails as a position player. Start our own academy for it. You get one kid every three or four years that gets to the show and it would pay for itself.

This topic was proposed at the SABR conference last week and Bill James endorsed the idea. He said the biggest reason why there are so few knuckleballers is that there isn't enough support for them in the minors. Catchers don't know how to catch them and coaches don't know how to coach it. He said someone will probably develop an academy soon and start cranking them out.

[luismatos4prez]

My guess would be that there is a prerequisite of at least fringe major league talent as a regular pitcher to be successful at the major league level with a knuckleball..

Did Tim Wakefield have fringe ML talent as a SP? I really have no idea, but I don't remember ever thinking his other pitches were good enough on their own.

[Malike]

Did Tim Wakefield have fringe ML talent as a SP? I really have no idea, but I don't remember ever thinking his other pitches were good enough on their own.

He was a first baseman prospect.

[scOtt]

Zach Wilt writes

...

Zach Staniewicz is a 26-year-old self described ?baseball junkie? who is pursuing his lifelong dream of pitching in the big leagues. Staniewicz has pitched in pro baseball at the Independent League level, but worked with 300 game winner ? and fellow knuckleballer ? Phil Niekro in 2011 to refine his craft and make his chances of pitching in the bigs even better.

?He had a lot of good things to say,? Staniewicz told Derik Vanderford of the Union Daily Times in January. ?He told me to keep working on the knuckle ball, so I committed myself to the pitch. He told me to eat, sleep and breathe the knuckle ball. He said it can?t be a secondary pitch; it?s gotta be all you throw. I took that advice.?

...

He played for the Military All-Stars for two weeks and his coach, Terry Allvord, called his pal Dan Duquette to setup a tryout for Staniewicz.

Staniewicz of course agreed and went to Camden Yards with the intention of throwing in the bullpen for Duquette before an Orioles game.

After eating lunch inside the stadium, Staniewicz went to the bus and asked his coach if he should get his gloves and cleats, but his coach said, ?No, he?s already agreed to sign you.?

?Someone asked me, ?What just happened??? Staniewicz said. ?I was like, ?I?m not sure, but I think I just got signed by the Orioles!??

Staniewicz then met with Duquette, who realized he had already worked with Niekro. Duquette gave him a verbal agreement during the summer and said he wanted to hire Niekro to work with him during spring training.

Staniewicz signed a minor league deal with the Orioles and the Birds hired Niekro to come to Sarasota and continue to work with the knuckleballer.

I haven?t been able to find much on how his spring has gone with the O?s, but Matt Eddy of Baseball America brings up a great point about Staniewicz?s fit with the Orioles.

In any other organization, Staniewicz would seem to be the longest of long shots, but Baltimore did resuscitate the careers of Miguel Gonzalez and Lew Ford last year.

...

http://baltimoresportsreport.com/orioles-knuckleball-pitcher-zach-staniewicz-38784.html

Verbal agreement last summer. So Dan saw some untapped talent? Or Dan saw a way to get an "in" with Niekro? YOU MAKE THE CALL!

Criticize me if I deserve it, for reading too much into one paragraph of a quote... but that's some long slow play con goin' on right there.

In fair play, Staniewicz may or may not be anything, I have no idea. Niekro saw something in him... Just sounds to me like Dan is touching EVERY base. Like an octopus. Like a dodecahedron-us.

[scOtt]

And just my WAG...

STAN-ih-witch.

[Ohfan67]

Come on guys! You don't really believe this story do you? This is for Bundy. Niekro is going to teach Bundy the knuckleball to try to salvage his career. Jeez you guys are slow sometimes.

[sevastras]

Isnt there a 14 yr old girl out there that is dominating little league with a knuckleball? Serious, not a joke. I have known some guys that throw a knuckle for fun...I think the prerequiset should be that you throw 85+ before you get to learn the knuckle. These guys that play softball throw a 50mph one during warmups and it is weak. I think the girl throws harder than that. I dont mind teaching it to guys, certainly there are ones out there that will give themselves a better shot that way.