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Minimum MLB contract at 500k is it time to give the kids in the minors some money?


Gurgi

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Because Indy leagues aren't connected to a billion-dollar industry that regularly hands out 9 figure contracts? Because there isn't a single major league team that can't afford to pay their minor leaguers enough to make sure they aren't going to struggle to feed their kids in the offseason? Because Indy leaguers generally know what they're getting into and don't have the potential cup of coffee dangling in front of their faces, possibly convincing them to forgo a college education? Becuase MLB teams should pay more for the privilege of controlling these players' fates until they retire?

This is the same argument that's made about any low-paying job. Why doesn't McDonald's volunteer to pay 19-year-old fry cooks $14 an hour? They probably dwarf MLB's annual revenues. Because they have no reason to - they have people lined up to work for minimum wage.

Now, I can see an argument for doing more for minor league kids. Giving them more support. Whether a guy is a $2M first round pick or a $5000 kid from the DR, it sounds like they're thrown to the wolves. "Ok kid, report to Delmarva, have fun!" And they end up sleeping on the floor in an apartment with six other guys, eating fast food 11 times a week, spending their bonus on a monster truck and video games. I think they'd get more return on investment if they gave them a lot more guidance and structure. Basically set up a system that doesn't allow Billy Rowells to go rouge and sleep in their car and get mixed up in destructive crap, and instead focus them on working out,, eating right and furthering their athletic careers.

But I see getting baseball, even in their status as gov't-subsidized monopoly, volunteering to pay kids more salary as a non-starter. MLB has never, not in 140 years, paid any group of players $1 more than they had to. This is an organization that, in my lifetime and I'm not that old, had a minimum MLB salary of about $10k.

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Well according to the graph I found here:

http://www.yougoprobaseball.com/how-much-money-do-minor-league-baseball-players-make-get-paid.html

2,500 a month is doing pretty good.

Level 1st Year 2nd Year 3rd Year

Rookie $1150 $1200 $1250

Short S A $1150 $1200 $1250

Low A $1300 $1350 $1400

High A $1500 $1550 $1600

Double A $1700 $1800 $1900

Triple A $2150 $2400 $2700

Of course they don't get paid during ST, just meal money.

I'm going off a story in the local paper about the Blue Crabs' salaries. IIRC, the former MLB players and the like sometimes make as much as $2500 a month, but most players make much less. I think a standard Atlantic League salary is more like $1200 a month. The managers don't make any more than that. So a guy like Butch Hobson, who managed the Red Sox and other affiliated minor league teams, had a 7-year MLB career as a player... he's making maybe $15k a year managing in the indy leagues.

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This is the same argument that's made about any low-paying job. Why doesn't McDonald's volunteer to pay 19-year-old fry cooks $14 an hour? They probably dwarf MLB's annual revenues. Because they have no reason to - they have people lined up to work for minimum wage.

Now, I can see an argument for doing more for minor league kids. Giving them more support. Whether a guy is a $2M first round pick or a $5000 kid from the DR, it sounds like they're thrown to the wolves. "Ok kid, report to Delmarva, have fun!" And they end up sleeping on the floor in an apartment with six other guys, eating fast food 11 times a week, spending their bonus on a monster truck and video games. I think they'd get more return on investment if they gave them a lot more guidance and structure. Basically set up a system that doesn't allow Billy Rowells to go rouge and sleep in their car and get mixed up in destructive crap, and instead focus them on working out,, eating right and furthering their athletic careers.

But I see getting baseball, even in their status as gov't-subsidized monopoly, volunteering to pay kids more salary as a non-starter. MLB has never, not in 140 years, paid any group of players $1 more than they had to. This is an organization that, in my lifetime and I'm not that old, had a minimum MLB salary of about $10k.

Who said anything about MLB volunteering to pay more? That's neither here nor there, this is about what the players deserve to make. Whether the fault lies on MLB or the players' union for not giving a damn, whatever, that's not the point. "MLB's never paid a dollar more than they had to, therefore minor leaguers don't deserve more than they make" -- this is maybe one of the more crotchety suggestions I've ever read.

And you have to be stretching the devil's advocate game pretty far to compare minor league ballplayers to McDonald's low-wage workers. You're talking about, what, 6-7k minor leaguers compared to a majority of McDonald's 1.7 million employees? And yeah, I'd happily contend that those workers deserve a raise, but that still has nothing to do with Major League Baseball and minor league ballplayers do not serve an even remotely similar function to fast food workers. I'm not sure the concept of a farm system can really compare to any other employment system, at least that I know of.

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Who said anything about MLB volunteering to pay more? That's neither here nor there, this is about what the players deserve to make. Whether the fault lies on MLB or the players' union for not giving a damn, whatever, that's not the point. "MLB's never paid a dollar more than they had to, therefore minor leaguers don't deserve more than they make" -- this is maybe one of the more crotchety suggestions I've ever read.

That would be a terribly crotchety defense of the status quo, had I ever made that statement. My position is:

1) MLB won't change the minor league salary structure unless they're forced to.

2) In general, I think people should get paid what the market will support.

3) MLB distorts the market to their advantage by being a monopoly and tying up the vast majority of the best players in the country.

4) Despite all of this there has never been a shortage of players willing to play minor league ball for peanuts.

Lump all that together and there's very little incentive for anyone to change the status quo. Fair or not.

And you have to be stretching the devil's advocate game pretty far to compare minor league ballplayers to McDonald's low-wage workers. You're talking about, what, 6-7k minor leaguers compared to a majority of McDonald's 1.7 million employees? And yeah, I'd happily contend that those workers deserve a raise, but that still has nothing to do with Major League Baseball and minor league ballplayers do not serve an even remotely similar function to fast food workers. I'm not sure the concept of a farm system can really compare to any other employment system, at least that I know of.

The similarity is that you, essentially, have an endless supply of people willing to do a job for a very low salary. At $1000 a month you can fill hundreds of minor league teams. At minimum wage you can fill all the jobs at all the McDonalds. You can argue until you're blue in the face about fairness and markets and monopolies and whatever, and you may well be "right" but that doesn't do anything about the supply and demand of labor in these positions at the current salary.

And when you artifically bump up the wages of a position there are almost always unintended consequences. I would be willing to bet that if some externality forced MLB to triple minor league salaries, they would try various strategies to counter that - they'd lop off levels of the minors, or increase foreign affiliated leagues like the DSL if they could pay lower wages there, or they'd institute a minimum draft age like other sports and push those kids into college or indy leagues.

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Some of the bigger "AAAA" guys can make upwards of $10K a month. Overall though, the salaries for the minor league players are ridiculously low, but as Drungo point out, it truly is a supply and demand situation. Until MLB sees quality prospects giving it up because they can't afford to play, they will continue to operate as cheaply as possible.

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No they don't deserve more money. The supply/demand market sets their salary. Just like any job. Lawyers, doctors, scientists, engineers, etc... make more money than other professions because there's not a lot of supply to fit the demand.

You are actually worried that some kids don't get paid enough to hit a ball around (Most of them not even very well)? These guys are in their teens and early twenties. They don't have familes. And if they did they shouldn't be chasing the dream of big league ball unless they are really special. Get a college degree and do something useful for society. Baseball isn't important. You are acting like these kids are researching cancer or aids or something.

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I was wondering if it is time to maybe triple the amount of money that the minor leaguers make. Would a minimum of 35k be right for low minors? 75k for AAA.

They will get their paydays when/if they get to the big show.

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No they don't deserve more money. The supply/demand market sets their salary. Just like any job. Lawyers, doctors, scientists, engineers, etc... make more money than other professions because there's not a lot of supply to fit the demand.

You are actually worried that some kids don't get paid enough to hit a ball around (Most of them not even very well)? These guys are in their teens and early twenties. They don't have familes. And if they did they shouldn't be chasing the dream of big league ball unless they are really special. Get a college degree and do something useful for society. Baseball isn't important. You are acting like these kids are researching cancer or aids or something.

While I generally agree with the idea that the market sets salaries, this is not a free market. On the free and open market many of them would get substantially larger signing bonuses. The draft caps that. And they have no where else to go, within reason because MLB is essentially a monopoly.

And the "baseball isn't important" argument is ridiculous. Are movie stars important? Are hot dog salesmen important? Are symphony conductors important? Importance in a market-based economy, even a strained and manipulated market economy, is defined by demand. And there's a ton of money flowing to people who are high-performing athletes. It's an open question as to how much revenue a mid-level minor leaguer generates, and what percentage of that he deserves. It would certainly be a different and less enjoyable society if we only worked on things that are "important."

Oh, and lots and lots of minor leaguers have families to support.

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They will get their paydays when/if they get to the big show.

Maybe one in 10 minor leaguers ever appear in the majors, and only a fraction of those players spend significant time there. Setting aside political theatrics, baseball really is an occupation where the top 1% of players gets probably 90% of the salaries. Ryan Howard makes more money each year than the Phillies spend on their entire scouting/drafting/development infrastructure, including the combined salaries of their 200+ minor leaguers.

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That would be a terribly crotchety defense of the status quo, had I ever made that statement. My position is:

1) MLB won't change the minor league salary structure unless they're forced to.

2) In general, I think people should get paid what the market will support.

3) MLB distorts the market to their advantage by being a monopoly and tying up the vast majority of the best players in the country.

4) Despite all of this there has never been a shortage of players willing to play minor league ball for peanuts.

Lump all that together and there's very little incentive for anyone to change the status quo. Fair or not.

The similarity is that you, essentially, have an endless supply of people willing to do a job for a very low salary. At $1000 a month you can fill hundreds of minor league teams. At minimum wage you can fill all the jobs at all the McDonalds. You can argue until you're blue in the face about fairness and markets and monopolies and whatever, and you may well be "right" but that doesn't do anything about the supply and demand of labor in these positions at the current salary.

And when you artifically bump up the wages of a position there are almost always unintended consequences. I would be willing to bet that if some externality forced MLB to triple minor league salaries, they would try various strategies to counter that - they'd lop off levels of the minors, or increase foreign affiliated leagues like the DSL if they could pay lower wages there, or they'd institute a minimum draft age like other sports and push those kids into college or indy leagues.

Well, to borrow your analogy, there are millions of people who are willing to work for pennies. But we still have a minimum wage and we still (ideally) raise it along with inflation. If McDonald's and every other competing fast food joint could get away with it, I'm sure they'd cut their wages in half and still fill up their stores with employees. But you're using free market ideas in an industry that doesn't resemble a free market, and that doesn't make sense. Competition is supposed to set the standards, and there's no outside competition in MLB. As it is now, the MiLB system is a cheap little gambling racket that gobbles up kids that are usually too young and idealistic about their own talents to be making that sort of decision anyway, and it results in a lot of squalor that simply looks insane next to the excesses of major league contracts. And there isn't a single team that truly be hurt by throwing a few millions dollars to make sure the kids they control aren't living in their cars and eating crap.

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Until these players are in the majors, they really aren't contributing to the profits of the major league team. And, let's not forget that a lot of guys in the minors got a signing bonus, either modest or humongous. For many of those guys, their bonus was more than their salary (even their salary over several years). For the AAAA guys, they get a prorated major league salary when they're up, of better than $2500 per game, so even a short call-up can make them a pretty nice chunk of change. So, while I have a little sympathy for their plight, the bottom line is that if they can make more money doing something else, they are free to do it.

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MLB teams should pay more for the privilege of controlling these players' fates until they retire

How do you mean? Players aren't stuck with the teams that draft/sign them forever. I think 6 years of professional service time lets you hit free agency even if you've never played in the majors.

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How do you mean? Players aren't stuck with the teams that draft/sign them forever. I think 6 years of professional service time lets you hit free agency even if you've never played in the majors.

There is kind of a doughnut hole for players that are pretty good, but not crazy good. Guys who take a long time to reach the majors. It's possible to be drafted out of college at 22, play almost six years in the minors, get called up, then play six years in the majors, and not hit free agency until 34, going on 35. At which point your career is basically over. So, for all intents and purposes, you never hit free agency.

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While I generally agree with the idea that the market sets salaries, this is not a free market. On the free and open market many of them would get substantially larger signing bonuses. The draft caps that. And they have no where else to go, within reason because MLB is essentially a monopoly.

And the "baseball isn't important" argument is ridiculous. Are movie stars important? Are hot dog salesmen important? Are symphony conductors important? Importance in a market-based economy, even a strained and manipulated market economy, is defined by demand. And there's a ton of money flowing to people who are high-performing athletes. It's an open question as to how much revenue a mid-level minor leaguer generates, and what percentage of that he deserves. It would certainly be a different and less enjoyable society if we only worked on things that are "important."

Oh, and lots and lots of minor leaguers have families to support.

Nobody is forcing these guys to play baseball. If they have a family to support and the pay isn't enough, they should do what every other person not in their situation does and find a job that they can do to support their family (and a good number do).

They made the conscious decision to chase their dream at the rate they're getting paid and if they're doing it at the expense and stress on their family; than that's between them and their families.

The free market has determined their salaries Because teams aren't having issues filling their minor league rosters even given a good chunk of these guys could have better pay outside of baseball. And to limit the "market" to just baseball jobs is woefully ignorant.

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