A closer look at the Chris Davis trade - Andy MacPhail the trade master

[Tony-OH]

Absolutely amazing. I know the majority of posters here think AM was a failure overall but I think most fans don't realize how lucky we were to have him.

MacPhail's strength was as a trader. Unfortunately, he was not very good at most of the other aspects and in particular, was way to dependent on trying to squeeze out one more good year from an aging veteran no matter how many signs that indicated they weren't any good. On top of it all, MacPhail never stocked the system with real depth, rarely if ever used the waiver wire well (Strop is the exception, but he was basically a trade) and didn't make the needed the changes in the minor league system.

I don't think MacPhail was terrible, but he was way too slow and dealing with a fluid job. He did bring in a lot of the talent that helped turned the team around last year, and I will give him the credit for doing that, but you can not gloss over the mistakes that kept this team in last place during the duration of his stay.

[Pickles]

MacPhail's strength was as a trader. Unfortunately, he was not very good at most of the other aspects and in particular, was way to dependent on trying to squeeze out one more good year from an aging veteran no matter how many signs that indicated they weren't any good. On top of it all, MacPhail never stocked the system with real depth, rarely if ever used the waiver wire well (Strop is the exception, but he was basically a trade) and didn't make the needed the changes in the minor league system.

I don't think MacPhail was terrible, but he was way too slow and dealing with a fluid job. He did bring in a lot of the talent that helped turned the team around last year, and I will give him the credit for doing that, but you can not gloss over the mistakes that kept this team in last place during the duration of his stay.

Most of what you say here I agree with.

However, most of the mistakes that kept this team in last place during AM's duration were made before he got here.

He left this organization in FAR, FAR better shape than he found it.

For me, that's the bottom line.

[Pickles]

As well as the Bedard trade turned out for us, I think that was less about MacPhail's trading acumen and more about the shortage of top-level pitchers on the market that offseason. As I recall, Cincinnati offered us a package that included Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto, Drew Stubbs and a fourth player, which MacPhail rejected because he wanted Jay Bruce (who at the time was the BA No. 1 prospect). As much as I like Jones and Tillman, I think in hindsight the Cinciannati package was better. (By the way, Josh Hamilton also was reported to be available to us in the early discussions with Cincy that offeseason, but the Reds traded him for Volquez after our talks progressed at a slow pace.) So, while I'm very happy with the Bedard trade, I think it could have been even better.

You left Luke Scott off your list of players MacPhail acquired. He gave us three very good years as part of the Tejada deal.

Yes and no.

Could have been better, but I don't think any reasonable expectation should be that it should have been.

Santana was traded that same offseason.

How'd that package turn out?

[Tony-OH]

Most of what you say here I agree with.

However, most of the mistakes that kept this team in last place during AM's duration were made before he got here.

He left this organization in FAR, FAR better shape than he found it.

For me, that's the bottom line.

I agree that the organization had some better young talent when he left then when he arrived, but the team never left last place the entire time MacPhail was here and the culture was still the same for the most part. Although Duquette held onto Kevin Gregg way too long last year, he's shown much more willingness to address roster concerns quickly and he has made organizational moves within the front office that has made major changes in how the Orioles do business, something MacPhail was not able to accomplish. Again, I'm not going to bash MacPhail and say he was terrible, but his slow, methodical ways that enabled him to be a good trader also handcuffed him in many other ways.

One thing to remember is that just in November of 2011, we were the joke of baseball and we couldn't even hire a GM. Duquette and Buck together have changed that culture and now we are getting good talented people into the organization in many different roles.

[DrungoHazewood]

My issue with MacPhail is that he was kind of a one-dimensional GM. Maybe he was forced, to some degree, into that mold because of Angelos' wishes. But he was very limited in how he acquired players. There were the handful of good trades a year, and crossing your fingers on drafting. No impact free agents. Very few international signings of note. No stockpiling of depth. No innovation. Little evidence of investment in the organization, in infrastructure, in coaching. It's just very hard to compete when you're in a stacked division and you're totally relying on two trades a year and the draft.

[Frobby]

My issue with MacPhail is that he was kind of a one-dimensional GM. Maybe he was forced, to some degree, into that mold because of Angelos' wishes. But he was very limited in how he acquired players. There were the handful of good trades a year, and crossing your fingers on drafting. No impact free agents. Very few international signings of note. No stockpiling of depth. No innovation. Little evidence of investment in the organization, in infrastructure, in coaching. It's just very hard to compete when you're in a stacked division and you're totally relying on two trades a year and the draft.

I think MacPhail did very little, if anything, to improve scouting and player development, which really are the lifeblood of an organization.

[Pickles]

I think MacPhail did very little, if anything, to improve scouting and player development, which really are the lifeblood of an organization.

I think some of that was "organizational." Read Angelos.

However, he certainly did improve our international presence.

[waroriole]

I think some of that was "organizational." Read Angelos.

However, he certainly did improve our international presence.

I can understand why people would argue this, but how do you explain DD coming in and completely overhauling everything in a year?

[hoosiers]

AM certainly made some stunning trades. These trades reflect a tremendous understanding of the market supply and demand coupled with both an ability to target appropriate destinations for his players and his ability to apparently ask for the inclusion of additional bodies in trades.

It is very difficult for me to look at AM's time in Bmore and conclude AM was an A+ trader, but was not so much at other aspects of the job. That is just difficult to believe. It's not difficult to consider that AM worked under limitations regarding his ability to replace key front office personnel with his own guys.

AM expanded the draft budget though that did not produce appropriate results. He improved our international scouting operations tremendously, but at a measured pace that still left us in the bottom third or worse of international operations. It appears AM tried to give front office talent an opportunity to show they could do their jobs competently whereas.

The methodical approach of AM makes it very difficult to discern whether the evaluation and replacement period for the front office and management talent was too slow due to AM or from restrictions by PA. Further, the way DD has come into the organization like a bull in a china shop and moved guys into and out of the organization makes one wonder if AM had the same opportunity to shake up the FO management or not.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think some of that was "organizational." Read Angelos.

However, he certainly did improve our international presence.

In what way did he improve the international presence? The only notable international signing I recall him making was Koji. Wasn't MacPhail the guy who said something along the lines of "the ROI on higher-dollar international signings itsn't high enough, so we won't be making any."

[Gurgi]

In what way did he improve the international presence? The only notable international signing I recall him making was Koji. Wasn't MacPhail the guy who said something along the lines of "the ROI on higher-dollar international signings itsn't high enough, so we won't be making any."

Yes there is no doubt he was not perfect. Maybe not even adequate. But he did make a pretty mean trade.

[Pickles]

In what way did he improve the international presence? The only notable international signing I recall him making was Koji. Wasn't MacPhail the guy who said something along the lines of "the ROI on higher-dollar international signings itsn't high enough, so we won't be making any."

Jonathon Schoop and Eduardo Rodriguez, not to mention Gabriel Lino, ring a bell?

[Pickles]

I can understand why people would argue this, but how do you explain DD coming in and completely overhauling everything in a year?

This is pure speculation on my part, and if somebody was using this same logic to make a point I disagreed with, I call them on it. Still, imo, I think Angelos, between MacPhail leaving, and not being able to give away the GM job for the better part of the offseason last year, was finally shamed into allowing GMs to setup their own flow chart.

[Trackmaster]

MacPhail also netted us some great 1st round picks, but I'm not sure how much of that was just because we were picking towards the top every year. But still, Weiters and Bundy were considered the possible #1 overall prospects, and MacPhail fearlessly started Boras down and signed them. I guess that we didn't have much draft success beyond them though.

But I think that MacPhail could have had success had he been operating in an easier division with a bigger budget, but hell, you can say that about any GM. Who wants to compete in the AL East with a budget that's half of two of the other teams? We could have been a play-off contender with him in the NL Central with a full international scouting department, the ability to sign FA's to long-term deals in their prime, and the ability to add talent in the middle of the season where we were contending.

[Gurgi]

Wieters was drafted before MacPhail got here. Some speculation before that some of the reason Angelos fired Flannagan was that Wieters was a Boras client and Angelos had a long running refusal to deal with Boras.

However MacPhail did at least SIGN Wieters.