Jump to content

2013 St. Louis Cardinals


OFFNY

Recommended Posts

.

2011 World Champions, 2012 N.L.C.S. Finalists, and Migrant Redbird's favorite team.

SHELBY MILLER O (vs. THE BREWERS, 4/12)

IP:. 7

H:o 1

R:O 0

BB: 0

SO: 8

Pitches: 113 (87 Strikes, 26 Balls)

2012 ERA: 1.46

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

If I didn't know how quickly the worm can turn, I'd be getting excited about now. I felt entering the season that the Cards could end up with the best pitching staff in baseball, which has been vindicated the last 3 games. The Cards pitchers now have 32 consecutive scoreless innings, with a shutout over the Reds and 2 against the Brewers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.

The Cardinals were the beneficiaries of the stupidest rule in all of sports (outside of perhaps NCAA Division-I football refusing to implement a 16-team playoff for the last 50 years) last night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Cardinals were the beneficiaries of the stupidest rule in all of sports (outside of perhaps NCAA Division-I football refusing to implement a 16-team playoff for the last 50 years) last night.

What rule is that?

The rule that stipulates that if 5 innings have not been completed, everything that occurred on the field is therefore completely erased.

The Pirates were leading last night's game by a score of 4-2 after 2 innings. It didn't count, because rain prevented any further play.

The more egregious examples (such as when a team is leading by a score of 8-1 after 3 or 4 innings) are even more infuriating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering that make-ups are now scheduled as split double-headers with admission charged to both games, the rule makes sense. Fans should be entitled to see a full game.

Of course the rule has been around forever, and they used to admit fans to those double headers for 1 admission price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering that make-ups are now scheduled as split double-headers with admission charged to both games, the rule makes sense. Fans should be entitled to see a full game.

Of course the rule has been around forever, and they used to admit fans to those double headers for 1 admission price.

The rule makes no sense at all, whatsoever. Make-up games and split-doubleheaders have nothing to do with it. Ask 1,000 fans of any team that was just screwed by this rule when their team was leading by a score of 8-1 after 4 innings, and see how many of them are happy about the fact that the game was expunged and started anew so that they could have the privilege of seeing a full game. They played baseball, and the game should be continued where it was left off. Plain and simple. To exemplify the insanity of it all, baseball is the only sport in which you'll see players intentionally tanking plays by making outs on purpose and/or swinging at pitches that are half a foot outside the strike zone in order to hurry the game up to make it official.

It's an insane rule, it always has been, and as long as it's on the books, it always will be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rule makes no sense at all, whatsoever. Make-up games and split-doubleheaders have nothing to do with it. Ask 1,000 fans of any team that was just screwed by this rule when their team was leading by a score of 8-1 after 4 innings, and see how many of them are happy about the fact that the game was expunged and started anew so that they could have the privilege of seeing a full game.

90 percent of those 1,000 fans are well aware the shoe could have been on the other foot and 100 percent of them are happy with the rule when it is.

It's a fair rule (except to the players whose good stats get washed out).

... They played baseball, and the game should be continued where it was left off. Plain and simple. To exemplify the insanity of it all, baseball is the only sport in which you'll see players intentionally tanking plays by making outs on purpose and/or swinging at pitches that are half a foot outside the strike zone in order to hurry the game up to make it official.

I agree the farcial play is very unfortunate. Fortunately, it happens rarely. When it does, it's also a significant contribution to baseball's lore, as managers come up with innovative ways to avoid letting the game go official.

... It's an insane rule, it always has been, and as long as it's on the books, it always will be.

I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

90 percent of those 1,000 fans are well aware the shoe could have been on the other foot and 100 percent of them are happy with the rule when it is.

It's a fair rule (except to the players whose good stats get washed out).

Wrong. 90 percent of those 1,000 fans are well aware that they are extremely lucky when their team is the beneficiary of the senseless rule, and are well aware of when they have been extremely angry when it happened to their team in the past (and will be extremely angry again when it happens to their team in the future.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cutting down on walks was one of Adam's prime objectives in spring training, along with winning the Silver Slugger.

I'm probably not going to engage in many more extended discussions for a while. Something in the ads here freezes up Firefox for several seconds every time I go to a new page, possibly an adobe Flash insert. It's too much hassle to wade through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It helped that the Cards caught the Nats hitters in a terrible funk. Of course, that funk was more terrible by the time the Cards left town.

Cards completed the sweep of the Nats today, 4-2. I didn't want to mention they were working on it until the final out, for fear of jinxing the sweep. The Nats pitchers actually performed fairly well, surrendering only 9 runs in the 3 games. However, Nats hitters only scored 4 runs.

It's time for the Nats hitters to get well. The red hot Reds are coming to town for a 4 game set, having won 8 of their last 10, and I'd love to see the Nats get some revenge on the NL Central.

The Cards have played a difficult schedule so far in April. They opened on the road in Arizona, where the opposing pitchers had just played 33 spring training games. Then they played the reigning world champions. They returned home to play the NL Central champion Reds and the Brewers (which went on to win 9 games in a row). Then they went back on the road to Pittsburgh (which gave them fits last year), Philadelphia, and everyone's consensus NL best team for 2013. Despite that, they're clinging to a half game lead in the NL Central with a 13-8 record.

The tough April schedule isn't over yet. The Cards return home to host the Reds and Pirates, then finish the month in Milwaukee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was an interesting brouhaha in St. Louis last night.

mlb.com story

Rather than describe the incident, I'll quote from the article.

Matt Carpenter and Beltran opened the first with consecutive home runs off Pirates lefty Jonathan Sanchez.

... Matt Holliday followed with a sharp single to center, after which Sanchez's next pitch -- a 92-mph fastball -- struck Allen Craig on the left shoulder. The timing of the plunking was enough to prompt home plate umpire Tim Timmons to immediately eject Sanchez.

... "You've got two home runs, and then you've got a line-drive single up the middle, and then the very first pitch is up around the shoulder and head area," Timmons told a pool reporter after the game. "He threw intentionally at him, and in that area I deemed that intentional, and he's done. Very dangerous."

Neither Cardinals manager Mike Matheny nor Craig speculated afterward on whether they sensed similar intent by Sanchez.

"It's not my job to judge intent on stuff like that," Craig said. "I'm not the one throwing the ball."

Added Matheny: "I'm not really going there on that. The umpire, that's his call, that's his decision. My opinion doesn't really matter on the topic."

I was baby sitting my grandsons (ages 3,4, & 5) yesterday evening, so I recorded the game, along with the Pirates postgame show and MLB Tonight, to watch later. I started watching the game after the boys were asleep, but fell asleep myself before it had gone too far. When the 4-year-old woke me up at 4 AM needing dry clothes, I couldn't get back to sleep, so I watched portions of MLB tonight and the Pirates post game show.

On MLB tonight, Harold Reynolds and Dan Plesac both agreed that all of Sanchez's pitches up to the first 3 hitters were down in the zone and right on target. They were emphatic that the home plate umpire was absolutely correct to eject Sanchez without any warnings.

Then I watched an interview with Russell Martin, the Pirates catcher. He conceded that it did appear the pitch was intentional, but argued the umpire should have issued a warning first. He insisted that anyone who knew Sanchez would know the pitch wasn't intentional, and that he also had a tendency to overthrow, which was the reason for the "loss of control".

They also did an interview with Carlos Beltran, primarily to talk about him hitting home runs from both sides of the plate, but they also asked him about the Sanchez incident. Beltran said he doesn't believe the pitch was intentional, but that it was "scary", and pointed out that no one besides Sanchez knows what was in his mind at the time.

Complicating the issue is the fact that the umpires warned both managers, yet didn't eject Cardinals pitcher Lance Lynn when he hit Pirates leadoff hitter Starling Marte later in the game. Marte has been red hot to start the season, which would appear to provide motive. However, he was hit on the hands both times. I didn't go back and look at those at bats closely, but it appeared to me that in at least one instance, Marte was in the act of swinging and the ball might actually have been over the inside of the plate.

On the Pirates post game show, former pitcher Steve Blass was emphatic that the Cardinals hadn't done anything wrong, but he seemed to be saying that he believed Sanchez hadn't intentionally thrown at Craig either.

Being in the "Pirates marketing area", I can't watch the Cardinals broadcast on MLB Extra Innings. However, I have ROOT, the Pirates system, in my cable package so I've set my DVR to record both today's game and all the pre and post game shows. I'm sure there will be a lot more commentary on the incident.

Personally, while watching the game the first time, my immediate reaction was that the umpire was too hasty. Having listened to Reynolds, Plesac, Martin, and Blass, I'm no longer sure.

I imagine MLB is reviewing the tape of the game closely, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sanchez gets fined and/or suspended. At this point, I'm reserving my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Confession. Pirates Fan here.

This was utter trash. Sanchez shouldn't have been tossed, he should have been warned. After he and Hurdle are tossed, both teams were warned.

Lynn hits Marte...should have been tossed. I don't care, there were warnings, its black and white at that point. If you want to risk throwing inside after a warning then you better hope you don't hit a batter.

Lynn hits Marte...should have been tossed. Instead Jay Bell is tossed.

Rosenthal hits Sanchez...should have been tossed.

Score for this game. 3 hit pirates batters after a warning, 3 tossed players/ coaches. 1 hit cardinal before any warning, 0 tossed players/ coaches.

Game 2 of the series:

Burnett hits a batter...should probably be tossed.

Cardinals hit a batter two innings later in retaliation.

Sanchez suspension announced.

6 hit batters in two games and this umpiring crew is a joke. MLB is a joke too, these teams play too much during the season and if MLB doesn't take fair and equitable action there will be a brawl at some point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Confession. Pirates Fan here.

This was utter trash. Sanchez shouldn't have been tossed, he should have been warned. After he and Hurdle are tossed, both teams were warned.

Lynn hits Marte...should have been tossed. I don't care, there were warnings, its black and white at that point. If you want to risk throwing inside after a warning then you better hope you don't hit a batter.

Lynn hits Marte...should have been tossed. Instead Jay Bell is tossed.

Rosenthal hits Sanchez...should have been tossed.

Score for this game. 3 hit pirates batters after a warning, 3 tossed players/ coaches. 1 hit cardinal before any warning, 0 tossed players/ coaches.

Game 2 of the series:

Burnett hits a batter...should probably be tossed.

Cardinals hit a batter two innings later in retaliation.

Sanchez suspension announced.

6 hit batters in two games and this umpiring crew is a joke. MLB is a joke too, these teams play too much during the season and if MLB doesn't take fair and equitable action there will be a brawl at some point.

The real problem here is they're asking umpires to do something that's impossible -- to read the minds of pitchers and determine intent.

I winced when Marte was hit on the hands/wrists/forearms. Hand and wrist fractures will sideline players at least 1-2 months and potentially derail their hitting skills indefinitely. Back in 2008, my favorite rookie at the time, Joe Mather had hit 18 home runs in his rookie season and put up nearly an .800 OPS when he was hit on the wrist by a Diamondbacks pitcher in the 4th inning. Joe missed the entire 2009 season and was released by the Cards after a futile 2010. He tried to win a regular job with the Braves in 2011 and the Cubs in 2012, with little success. I didn't see him on a major league roster for 2013 and found him in an independent league team, Lancaster, which is just down the road from me.

The problem with hand/wrist injuries is that they're often incurred when the batter swings at a pitch and realizes too late that the pitch is inside. Sometimes the pitch is even in the strike zone.

It would be absurd to toss a pitcher because he's throwing over the inside of the plate and the batter puts his hands out there in the way. That's why the umpires treat the situation differently when a batter is hit on the hands than when he's hit on or near the head.

As Carlos Beltran said, no one but Sanchez knows whether that was a wild pitch or a deliberate attempt to intimidate the Cardinals batters. It appeared to be deliberate, which is why he was ejected and got a 6 game suspension. After 2 lead off home runs and a solid single up the middle, everyone in the ballpark was expecting Sanchez to retaliate. The home plate umpire was looking for it and when he saw a pitch which appeared to be exactly that, he reacted immediately and emphatically. If the situation had been less flagrant, Sanchez probably gets only a warning.

Even Russell Martin, the Pirates catcher, admitted that the pitch appeared to be intentional. He argued that "anyone who knows Sanchez knows he wouldn't do that", but that's difficult for an impartial observer to believe under the circumstances.

The problem is, we have a system where umpires (and ultimately MLB officials) are asked to read pitchers' minds. Regardless of intent, it doesn't make a difference to the hitters in terms of outcome. It's still their careers at risk and, in this case, Craig's life. A 6 game suspension pales in comparison to the possible loss of life. MLB is determined not to have a repetition of the Ray Chapman incident.

I personally think the best solution is to transfer some of the consequences now borne by the hitters over to the pitchers. When a pitch enters the zone of the batters box and injures the batter, the pitcher gets suspended for the duration of the period the batter is on the DL. (It would be necessary for MLB to have an impartial physician examine the batter to determine when he's physically ready to resume playing.)

If a batter is hit when the pitch is over the plate or in between the strike zone and the batters box, the pitcher wouldn't be penalized. That covers when the batter places himself at risk by leaning out over the plate or by swinging the bat and putting his hands in harms way.

This gives pitchers the freedom to pitch inside whenever they want, and the incentive to avoid making pitches that end up in the area of the batters box. The pitcher would still be able to throw at batters if he chooses, but he would also be accepting a part of the risk now borne entirely by the batter. If a pitcher is having issues with his control, both he and the catcher would need to factor that into their pitch selection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




  • Posts

    • No we do not. But I refuse to believe it will be anything like JA had on him. 
    • I think we're actually making the same point here.  The players we thought would be in the lineup, for the most part, ARE in the lineup.  Westburg is the only exception.  the problem isn't Westburg is missing - its that the rest of these guys suck.  Like, all of them.  At least right now.
    • Yeah, there were some not so good signs even early on, although I have to think they weren't unique to just the Orioles.  We were extremely fortunate to win 2 of 3 in April against KC, as we needed two walk-offs.  Milwaukee came in and just destroyed our pitching (think they averaged 14 hits a game). Oakland took the series with Kimbrel giving up 2 ninth inning homers.  Our regular season sweep less streak came to an end with a lifeless series in St. Louis.  Again, I think all teams go through lackluster series like that.  But that was all within the 49-25 start so it was kind of forgotten. I remember Oakland hung 19 on us in early July.  The Cubs outscored us 21-2 in our own stadium and Volpe and Verdugo were the only reason we didn't go into the break 0-6. We struggled to score in Miami and nearly got swept. The Padres pushed us around quite a bit at home.  And as I noted elsewhere, we have only come back to win two times since Memorial Day weekend when trailing after 6 innings. Even with a healthy offense, we have been pretty much cooked if we weren't tied or ahead after 6.
    • It's not the fact that Westburg is out of the lineup...it's who he's been replaced with.  If you replaced Westburg with a player of half his production, you'd still have more than what Holliday has given you.  And what Mayo has given you. You just listed them off: Cowser - can be a good hitter but is a K machine.  He's got a .678 OPS in September.   Mayo - automatic out. Holliday - automatic out.   Yeah, we wanted to replace guys with Holliday and Mayo because they were top prospects.  No one had any clue that these guys would have been as bad as they've been. Also, in today's lineup, you're overlooking how bad Tony and O'Hearn have been recently, too.  O'Hearn's OPS for September is .471.  .471!!! So when I look at today's lineup, I look at who the automatic outs are.  I look at the guys who are just flat out not giving any signs of life at all.   1.  O'Hearn.  Pains me to say it cause I like him, but he should be waking up every morning thankful for the existence of Holliday and everyone obsessing over how bad he's been.  O'Hearn is easily worth 3-4 outs a game. 2.  Holliday.  I still have hopes for the kid but good lord, his OPS this month is .370.  Holliday is easily worth 3-4 outs a game. 3.  Santander.  Last 28 days, his OPS is .739.  Over the last 14 days it's .586.  Over the last 7 days it's .250.  That's nto the trend you want to see from that guy.  I feel like I'm being generous but I think he's worth 2-3 outs a game right now. 4.  Cowser.  Probably the most appetizing of these 4, his OPS for September is .678 plus he brings a good glove to the field and that can't really be overlooked.  I think he's worth 2-3 outs a game, easily. So there you have it.  Conservatively, that's 10 outs in the game....just flat out zeros in the lineup.  You can make a case that these guys will produce 14 outs in the game today and I don't think anyone would say that's out of line.    
    • Yeah it looks like it goes to the entire league not just opposite division.  We will hold the tie breaker over either the Twins or Tigers with 2 wins though if we take two out of three vs the Tigers that will make us 3-3 vs them or a win vs the Twins or the Yankees.  
    • Yes I know.  I think had we not made any trades, we'd be under 84 wins right now.  Eflin has been huge.  Slater has had some big games.  Dominguez has contributed too.  
    • Maybe last year we were really two years away and we really just overachieved because of team chemistry and Bautista.  I don't see how taking Santa out of this lineup can be a good thing.  What are we going to do with 1B/DH next year.  Mounty and O'Hearn really can't be counted on for a team trying to win.  
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...