Small play by Jones tonight that I didn't like

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

It wasn't easy. He didn't make it.

Fair enough. Like others have mentioned it feels like in general Jones catches more flack than other players for things like this. I get the sense that as a whole the Hangout feels he's a good, but not great CFer. That's fair.

Sorry for the slightly off topic comment, but if he had a gun like Francoeur he may have thrown Joyce out at 2nd last night. That throw Francoeur made last night to home plate was insane.

[weams]

Or had he sprinted to the ball and made the throw a split second earlier.

That point is very true.

[Mayor McCheese]

I'm not sure it was an "easy" one hopper but it was certainly a bad attempt by Davis. Good that you brought it up. I thought it looked bad at the time.

It looked bad, High school'ish type mistake. Davis has to be able to see if the ball is going to hop or skip low.

He guessed hop and he was wrong.

[Mayor McCheese]

I think the play was harder because the throw didn't have a lot on it and it wasn't a short hop. You could see that Davis brought his glove up way too soon on it. He looked bad though.

I was at the game last night right behind 1B, I saw that the throw was low but couldnt see how Davis played it... saw the ball shoot underneath his glove and he turned around to get the ball and looked like a dog with a tail in between his legs.

I believe he will get better at it.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

Saw it. Francouer has to be top 10 all time for combined arm strength and accuracy. Best I can recall ever seeing. Jones arm is pretty darn strong too.

Jones does have a very good arm he's just not the most accurate. Still very good overall. One of my favorite plays in baseball is a RFer gunning a runner at 3rd. Off the top of my head Ichiro and Vlad were great at it. Markakis doesn't have the arm strength of those two, but his accuracy is outstanding.

[srock]

The slowly growing criticism of Adam Jones for seemingly minor and nebulous infractions reminds me of the way Baltimore turned on Eddie Murray between 1984-88.

I loved Eddie Murray during those years!

Full disclosure: I was 2 years old in 1984.

[Frobby]

I can't believe this thread about Jones

and nothing about Davis missing an easy one hopper from Hardy in the 8th inning last night.

Davis looked like a hockey goalie making a block instead of a 1B... and yes Mark Reynolds would have caught it!!!

So if you want a thread on that, feel free to start one. I happen to agree that there's a good chance Reynolds would have fielded that one.

But I don't get the whole "I can't believe there's a thread about this but not about that" argument. Just because someone starts a thread about one play, or player, doesn't mean they have no opinion about anything else. In my case, I don't often start threads about physical errors, but I do start them when I see what I consider a potential mental error. I should add that it's pretty apparent that many posters don't agree there was any mental error on the Jones play discussed in the OP, but that's why I started the thread in the first place, to find out what others thought about it.

[srock]

I'm not sure it was an "easy" one hopper but it was certainly a bad attempt by Davis. Good that you brought it up. I thought it looked bad at the time.

Expectations are quite a bit different for a gold glove CF vs. Davis who hasn't played 1B full time in like 4 years.

Davis needs to make that play, but his failure is commiserate with his current skill set.

[Why Not?]

Nope, not ludicrous at all.

I'm not calling YOU out specifically for criticizing Jones, but a growing portion of fans on message boards and radio. This is exactly how it started with Murray, whispers about a lack of "hustle" and being "lazy." People began crushing Murray for ticky-tacky things that literally every ballplayer did. Murray and, say, Rich Dauer could both go 0-for-5 with an error. It was just an off day for Dauer but for Murray it was a obvious lack of effort.

[LA2]

Nope, not ludicrous at all.

I'm not calling YOU out specifically for criticizing Jones, but a growing portion of fans on message boards and radio. This is exactly how it started with Murray, whispers about a lack of "hustle" and being "lazy." People began crushing Murray for ticky-tacky things that literally every ballplayer did. Murray and, say, Rich Dauer could both go 0-for-5 with an error. It was just an off day for Dauer but for Murray it was a obvious lack of effort.

Murray was not treated well by the media and he eventually refused to speak with them. But the Rich Dauer comparison is rather ironic: We're talking about someone who, though never a star, was a model of consistency and reliability and set the A.L. record for consecutive errorless games and chances by a second baseman. He certainly did earn the right to have an occasional lapse of focus forgiven, since it so seldom happened.

[Frobby]

Nope, not ludicrous at all.

I'm not calling YOU out specifically for criticizing Jones, but a growing portion of fans on message boards and radio. This is exactly how it started with Murray, whispers about a lack of "hustle" and being "lazy." People began crushing Murray for ticky-tacky things that literally every ballplayer did. Murray and, say, Rich Dauer could both go 0-for-5 with an error. It was just an off day for Dauer but for Murray it was a obvious lack of effort.

I was furious by the treatment that Eddie received, but I don't think the criticisms of Jones are comparable. I think almost everyone considers Jones to be a hard-working, hard nosed ballplayer. He has a habit, which IMO is undeniable, of cruising to balls in the OF and catching them as he arrives, instead of getting to the spot earlier and waiting for the ball to arrive there. That occasionally hurts him if (1) he has misjudged the ball or it gets caught in a gust of wind, or (2) he needs to position himself in the best possible way to make a throw. I don't view it as a lack of effort, but as a bad habit.

I will grant you that there are some fans who do criticize his level of effort, or not concentrating. I think that's a pretty small minority.

[Olson30]

Another horrible play by Jones tonight. He looks terrible in centerfield this year.

[LA2]

Something has to be done about it. It's not as bad as having Betemit or Reynolds at third base, but it's getting there.

[Three Run Homer]

You're probably talking about the ball that bounced past him. Terrible mental mistake by missing the cutoff man on the play before. Longoria wasn't even going but you gotta throw it low enough to stop the hitter from getting into scoring position. Really bad baseball by Jones. The second one was more physical, although once he knew he wasn't going to get it, he could have gotten his body in front of it to block it.

These two plays in the 4th inning were far more costly and poorly executed than the later plays that this thread has concentrated on. If he had hit the cutoff man, Duncan would have been out at 2B and the Rays would have only scored one run on Loney's hit.

I don't think it's unfair to criticize Jones' defense. He has not played well in CF this year, period, and it's cost us several runs and (in my opinion) two games already. He's tearing the cover off the ball, so that counts for plenty, but if this keeps up for another 2 months the O's will have to consider switching Jones and McLouth defensively.

[Il BuonO]

Isn't that the second time in a few days that's happened (a player tagging up at 1st and advancing to 2nd on a flyout to Adam, when he didn't set himself properly to catch the ball and make a throw)?

That was in the Yankee series when Gardner was on first and tagged beating Jones' throw to 2B. Now, as is his habit, he didn't set up properly behind the ball. What made it worse was that instead of catching the ball and throwing to 2B, he looked to see if Gardner was running. Almost as if he thought, "There's no way he tries to go to second on my arm." Well, Gardner looked as if he thought Jones was deep enough and never hesitated. Jones did and made almost a perfect throw but it was too late. He walked away back to center with this wry smile like he was in on it.

I was furious by the treatment that Eddie received, but I don't think the criticisms of Jones are comparable. I think almost everyone considers Jones to be a hard-working, hard nosed ballplayer. He has a habit, which IMO is undeniable, of cruising to balls in the OF and catching them as he arrives, instead of getting to the spot earlier and waiting for the ball to arrive there. That occasionally hurts him if (1) he has misjudged the ball or it gets caught in a gust of wind, or (2) he needs to position himself in the best possible way to make a throw. I don't view it as a lack of effort, but as a bad habit.

I will grant you that there are some fans who do criticize his level of effort, or not concentrating. I think that's a pretty small minority.

Nope. Not the effort or the accountability, but at some point he needs to have a realization that his being accountable, or a team leader, or winning Gold Glove awards don't win ball games or make plays for you in the OF.