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2013 Controverisal MLB Umpiring


SteveA

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Don't think we have a thread for this. If I am wrong mods can merge.

Anybody see the play in the 9th in Seattle last night? Seattle gets a man on with no one out. A potential DP ball is hit, and 1Bman Moreland is keeping his toe on the bag while stretching his glove to get the throw. But pitcher Grimm has come over and puts his glove right in front of Moreland's and (stupidly) takes the throw. Ump is watching the base and HEARS the ball hit glove before the runner gets there calls out. DP.

Seattle goes on to score a few runs in that 9th inning but lose by 1.

So my first question is: what about the other umps? Did NONE of them see the pitcher put his glove in front of the 1Bman and take the throw? Or was it an "ump etiquette" situuation where if thq 1B ump would have ASKED for help they would have told him. But he didn't ask so they kept their mouths shut rather than show him up? If the latter, that is completely unacceptable IMO.

Secondly, What about players involved? I know lying to an ump is part of the game. You trap the ball in the outfield but the ump calls it a catch, you keep your mouth shut and don't "fess up". Same if the ump says the pitch hit you but it really hit your bat. But this situation take that to another level. The pitcher had to pretend he didn't have the ball in his glove for some period of time and I guess there had to be some sort if play-acting where Moreland pretended to give Grimm the ball that Grimm actually already had. Does that go beyond the normal "ethics" or is it ethically no different than the trapped ball example?

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The play you're describing was hilarious. Something you never would imagine could actually happen. I don't think the 'performance' by the Rangers players (specifically Grimm the SP and Moreland the 1b) was unethical. Here's the video if some haven't seen it yet:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_05_24_texmlb_seamlb_1&mode=video&content_id=27403447&tcid=vpp_copy_27403447

Here's another missed call at 1b last night in an important situation:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=27405123&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_27405123&v=3

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The play you're describing was hilarious. Something you never would imagine could actually happen. I don't think the 'performance' by the Rangers players (specifically Grimm the SP and Moreland the 1b) was unethical. Here's the video if some haven't seen it yet:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_05_24_texmlb_seamlb_1&mode=video&content_id=27403447&tcid=vpp_copy_27403447

Here's another missed call at 1b last night in an important situation:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=27405123&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_27405123&v=3

Hawk Harrelson notwithstanding, I'm not convinced that the runner is safe on that 2nd play. It was very very close for sure. Replay angle was bad; couldn't tell exactly when the foot reached the bag.

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Don't think we have a thread for this. If I am wrong mods can merge.

Anybody see the play in the 9th in Seattle last night? Seattle gets a man on with no one out. A potential DP ball is hit, and 1Bman Moreland is keeping his toe on the bag while stretching his glove to get the throw. But pitcher Grimm has come over and puts his glove right in front of Moreland's and (stupidly) takes the throw. Ump is watching the base and HEARS the ball hit glove before the runner gets there calls out. DP.

Seattle goes on to score a few runs in that 9th inning but lose by 1.

So my first question is: what about the other umps? Did NONE of them see the pitcher put his glove in front of the 1Bman and take the throw? Or was it an "ump etiquette" situuation where if thq 1B ump would have ASKED for help they would have told him. But he didn't ask so they kept their mouths shut rather than show him up? If the latter, that is completely unacceptable IMO.

Secondly, What about players involved? I know lying to an ump is part of the game. You trap the ball in the outfield but the ump calls it a catch, you keep your mouth shut and don't "fess up". Same if the ump says the pitch hit you but it really hit your bat. But this situation take that to another level. The pitcher had to pretend he didn't have the ball in his glove for some period of time and I guess there had to be some sort if play-acting where Moreland pretended to give Grimm the ball that Grimm actually already had. Does that go beyond the normal "ethics" or is it ethically no different than the trapped ball example?

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I guess baseball is unacceptable to you then, because that is the first base umpire's call. The other umpires can only help if he asks them what they saw. Even then, it is still his call. He can change it if he feels that another ump has seen something he missed. No one else can change that call. Imagine the chaos if umpires were constantly trying to over-rule another umpire's call, even though distance and angle gives them a different, and most often worse, perspective than the umpire who is right there at the base in question and, presumably, properly positioned for the call. The way it is really is the best way.

In this case, the manager should have asked him to check with the second base umpire, who probably had the best view to see that the pitcher is the one who caught the ball. If the manager doesn't ask him to check with a partner, he is not likely to do so. If the manager does ask him to check with a partner, he is not required to do so, but most likely would if the manager told him the reason for his request is that he is pretty sure that the pitcher is the one who actually caught the ball, not the first baseman.

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Hawk Harrelson notwithstanding, I'm not convinced that the runner is safe on that 2nd play. It was very very close for sure. Replay angle was bad; couldn't tell exactly when the foot reached the bag.

It took me awhile, but I've looked at it several times and he was safe. It definitely

was a lot closer than it looked in full speed. I agree with you, it was not an easy call Hawk was making it out to be.

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That Texas/Seattle call was the worst call I've ever seen. No hyperbole. The worst.

I agree. Even if you miss that call in real time, how does it not get sorted out on the field? The first base not having the ball was a clear as GD day. Unless you gamble, being a professional umpire/ref is the most secure job in the world. These guys don't get held accountable, they don't get punished, and they most certainly don't get fired.

The other call was bang bang. He might have been safe. I thought he was with the help of replay but Hawk Harrelson was over the top as usual. It wasn't that egregious of a miscall even if it was one.

I seriously think the guy has perpetual wood when he's in the broadcast booth.

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Yeah, that was a bad call. But you could see that he was screen out by the infielder and didn't see the ball rolling.

In which case I question his positioning.

I still think it fits in the thread especially since the batter went on to hit a double.

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Yeah, that was a bad call. But you could see that he was screen out by the infielder and didn't see the ball rolling.

Perhaps but how does he not see the fielder picking the ball up from the ground? It's plain as day. These umpires are just horrible. I could at least get passed some of that because they're human, if they weren't always inserting themselves into the games.

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Perhaps but how does he not see the fielder picking the ball up from the ground? It's plain as day. These umpires are just horrible. I could at least get passed some of that because they're human, if they weren't always inserting themselves into the games.

And the part where he tags him with the glove then shows him the ball in the offhand.

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Where should he have been positioned in this situation?

I would think on the infield dirt so the fielder isn't blocking his view with his body. I mean I understand it would have required him to actually move and stuff when the pitcher attempted the pickoff. I guess asking them to take a few quick steps is really raising the bar for them.

Of course he still could have made the right call from where he was, pretty obvious that the tag couldn't have been made with the glove hand if the ball ends up in the bare hand.

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